As we go into the last full lesson this week Mike and I would like to take a minute to thank you all for such a great class. Your comments, challenges and questions have made this one of the most successful, if not the most successful class yet. The posting count is about 3 times the normal count for a class. That is just fantastic...
All that being said we want to be sure you have answers to your lingering questions so....
If there is a question you want more information on you can post it here or e-mail it to us so we can follow-up with you.
PLEASE remember there are no dumb questions...OK, maybe "Officer do you really think I deserve this ticket..." but other than that please ask....
Questions for the last week can be sent to the class board after we are "officially done" we do monitor the boards for new questions after the class is complete.
Mike and Greg
Housekeeping: Did We miss anything....
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mikemeister_admin
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mikemeister_admin
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Mike/Greg, is there a list of shortcut keys and their definition for CM?
Thanks Joe S
Here is a starting point.
http://www.curvemeister.com/support/curvemeister2/help/Menus/Menu_Items.htm
The sub-menus include many of the Ctrl-XX keystroke functions.
I'll ask Mike if there is a more difinitive version out there...
Greg
One thing has puzzled me, that you maybe able to ask/demostrate and that is why one would blur a Mask when darkening the sky - I feel it would remove detail from clouds, but it seems to be recommended.
The mask blur in CM only blurs the edges of the masked areas to provide a "smooth" transition from masked to unmasked. Personally, I have tried all of the various settings in CM and find them to be useful in specific situations. I would say if the edge of the mask being hard is vital to making the correction look right then you need to set it to no blur. Otherwise try a few different settings and see if you find one you like over others.
In general Chris, I side with you. It would seem that the edges of the mask in the sky would be important otherwise you would really mess up the clouds. but in scenes where the sky is blown out and you want to smoothly transition back to earth...Beach scenes, distant mountains etc. Then a blur is quite necessary. I guess it would best be described as a subjective answer...or better yet a qualified "depends" Can I ask who is recommending it?? I'd like to read the rational as well...
Greg
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mikemeister_admin
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Greg, I'm finding that when I create a mask I get different reactions with the COMPARE function. The only one I tried was LAB.
1. When I start and open CM, have the three windows (L, a, b)open and make a adjustment the COMPARE function works OK.
2. If I create a mask and have only the mask window open the very first time I apply the COMPARE function the button changes color like its working but does nothing that I can see.
3. If I change to "ALL" curves windows the COMPARE function button will not do anything. Not even change color like a working button.
4. If I go back to the mask only window and apply the COMPARE function it will do nothing. In step 2 the first time it changed color.
Anyway best I can tell the COMPARE function is not working when a mask has been created. Am I missing some step in order to see it?
Thanks Joe S
1. When I start and open CM, have the three windows (L, a, b)open and make a adjustment the COMPARE function works OK.
2. If I create a mask and have only the mask window open the very first time I apply the COMPARE function the button changes color like its working but does nothing that I can see.
3. If I change to "ALL" curves windows the COMPARE function button will not do anything. Not even change color like a working button.
4. If I go back to the mask only window and apply the COMPARE function it will do nothing. In step 2 the first time it changed color.
Anyway best I can tell the COMPARE function is not working when a mask has been created. Am I missing some step in order to see it?
Thanks Joe S
-
mikemeister_admin
- Posts: 4927
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:29 pm
Greg, I'm finding that when I create a mask I get different reactions with the COMPARE function. The only one I tried was LAB.
1. When I start and open CM, have the three windows (L, a, b)open and make a adjustment the COMPARE function works OK.
2. If I create a mask and have only the mask window open the very first time I apply the COMPARE function the button changes color like its working but does nothing that I can see.
3. If I change to "ALL" curves windows the COMPARE function button will not do anything. Not even change color like a working button.
4. If I go back to the mask only window and apply the COMPARE function it will do nothing. In step 2 the first time it changed color.
Anyway best I can tell the COMPARE function is not working when a mask has been created. Am I missing some step in order to see it?
Thanks Joe S
Joe,
I was not able to re-create your situation...My compare worked fine no matter what mask, curve, or channel I selected. I did notice that the button did not work right when I had a color picker stuck behind PS and i tried to close the CM program.
Can you re-create this at will?? If so you might want to report it as a bug for Mike to look at. It is also possible that I am not doing everything you are doing to create this situation...
Greg
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mikemeister_admin
- Posts: 4927
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:29 pm
Greg, re blurring
It is in Dan's PP5 chap 18 and also discussed on the Colour Theory Forum - which I'll give you extracts
Original Posting)
For anyone who's interested, (hoping of course I'm not stating the
obvious or covering previously discussed stuff) I have come across
something which some may find useful and wanted to share it with the
group.
Regarding darkening skies, where Dan has suggested in the past that
adding a luminosity layer of the Red channel works well, but has the
disadvantage of adding unpleasant noise. In experimenting with his
"Bridge of Sighs" Shadow/Highlight technique, I have found that using
the Blue channel with this method is a good alternative.
Begin with three identical layers, the top set to Darken and the
middle set to Overlay. To the middle layer, Apply the Blue channel
inverted, then blur. You have to be more careful with the blur than
usual, as the darkening is so dramatic that the halo can be obvious.
For this reason, a smaller blur is usually in order and the opacity of
the layer can be reduced, of course.
The fact that the blue is so light in skies makes the darkening very
effective and although the Blue is usually the worst of the three
quality-wise, light skies seem to be less problematic and the blurring
takes care of any existing noise or rubbish.
As an added bonus, if the shot is a landscape including foliage,
reducing the opacity of the top, Darken layer has a similarly dramatic
lightening effect there, as the Blue channel is so dark in these areas.
My Question)
To the middle layer, Apply the Blue channel
> inverted, then blur. You have to be more careful with the blur than
> usual, as the darkening is so dramatic that the halo can be obvious.
> For this reason, a smaller blur is usually in order and the opacity of
> the layer can be reduced, of course.
> Russ Brown
>
You have given me a marvelous eureka moment Russ - with your 3 layer
technique, suddenly the power and combination of layers and channel
blending has truely popped into place and I have definitely taken a
step forward in understanding what is possible with layer combinations.
However I can not really see why the blur is necessary, as even a small
blur does not seem to improve on the blending and, as you say, halos
begin to bite - could somebody explain the logic behind the blur please.
Answer 1)
As for the blur, it is explained in detail in Dan's PP5E, and although
I have read through it many times, my understanding can better be
explained as more conceptual rather than technical. I'm therefore
anxious about trying to explain it myself and hope that someone more
knowledgeable (I'm looking at YOU Stephen!) will put their hand up,(in
the absence of Dan himself.) However, briefly, without a blur, the
overlay can cancel out detail, leaving the image flat and in many
cases, just plain ugly. The blur halo gives the impression of depth
and works the magic of the Overlay blend mode. I'm going to put my
foot in it if I try to do any better than that! If you have PP5E, go
straight to chapter 18, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
Answer 2)
With Overlay blends, you're using a layer to darken and lighten parts
of the image. Russel is using the B channel inverted to lighten where
the B is dark and darken where the B is light. Without a blur, this
would drive things to neutral in the resulting B channel (and possibly
others). You can see this effect by taking a photo with a sky you want
to darken, and use the first part of Russel's technique (Overlay with
inverted B, but not the darken layer). Don't blur, and look at just
the B channel. You'll see considerable loss of detail in clouds, as
the pixel-by-pixel move drives everything to neutral.
Put a blur in and see the difference, first in the B channel only
(then in the composite). What happens is that the darkest parts of the
channel are still being lightened, as is anything nearby that isn't
necessarily dark (nearby being a function of the blur radius). This
preserves contrast (hence detail) locally.
The same thing is happening in Dan's alternative to Shadow/Highlight
in PP5E. You use a channel or channel blend to drive the lightening
and darkening, but you use a blur so as not to drive that blend to
neutral. If you're lightening or darkening some extreme point, you're
also doing it nearby, although not as much.
It is well worth subscribing to this forum - although a lot of it is way over my head, one gets quite a lot of interesting tips etc.
It is in Dan's PP5 chap 18 and also discussed on the Colour Theory Forum - which I'll give you extracts
Original Posting)
For anyone who's interested, (hoping of course I'm not stating the
obvious or covering previously discussed stuff) I have come across
something which some may find useful and wanted to share it with the
group.
Regarding darkening skies, where Dan has suggested in the past that
adding a luminosity layer of the Red channel works well, but has the
disadvantage of adding unpleasant noise. In experimenting with his
"Bridge of Sighs" Shadow/Highlight technique, I have found that using
the Blue channel with this method is a good alternative.
Begin with three identical layers, the top set to Darken and the
middle set to Overlay. To the middle layer, Apply the Blue channel
inverted, then blur. You have to be more careful with the blur than
usual, as the darkening is so dramatic that the halo can be obvious.
For this reason, a smaller blur is usually in order and the opacity of
the layer can be reduced, of course.
The fact that the blue is so light in skies makes the darkening very
effective and although the Blue is usually the worst of the three
quality-wise, light skies seem to be less problematic and the blurring
takes care of any existing noise or rubbish.
As an added bonus, if the shot is a landscape including foliage,
reducing the opacity of the top, Darken layer has a similarly dramatic
lightening effect there, as the Blue channel is so dark in these areas.
My Question)
To the middle layer, Apply the Blue channel
> inverted, then blur. You have to be more careful with the blur than
> usual, as the darkening is so dramatic that the halo can be obvious.
> For this reason, a smaller blur is usually in order and the opacity of
> the layer can be reduced, of course.
> Russ Brown
>
You have given me a marvelous eureka moment Russ - with your 3 layer
technique, suddenly the power and combination of layers and channel
blending has truely popped into place and I have definitely taken a
step forward in understanding what is possible with layer combinations.
However I can not really see why the blur is necessary, as even a small
blur does not seem to improve on the blending and, as you say, halos
begin to bite - could somebody explain the logic behind the blur please.
Answer 1)
As for the blur, it is explained in detail in Dan's PP5E, and although
I have read through it many times, my understanding can better be
explained as more conceptual rather than technical. I'm therefore
anxious about trying to explain it myself and hope that someone more
knowledgeable (I'm looking at YOU Stephen!) will put their hand up,(in
the absence of Dan himself.) However, briefly, without a blur, the
overlay can cancel out detail, leaving the image flat and in many
cases, just plain ugly. The blur halo gives the impression of depth
and works the magic of the Overlay blend mode. I'm going to put my
foot in it if I try to do any better than that! If you have PP5E, go
straight to chapter 18, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
Answer 2)
With Overlay blends, you're using a layer to darken and lighten parts
of the image. Russel is using the B channel inverted to lighten where
the B is dark and darken where the B is light. Without a blur, this
would drive things to neutral in the resulting B channel (and possibly
others). You can see this effect by taking a photo with a sky you want
to darken, and use the first part of Russel's technique (Overlay with
inverted B, but not the darken layer). Don't blur, and look at just
the B channel. You'll see considerable loss of detail in clouds, as
the pixel-by-pixel move drives everything to neutral.
Put a blur in and see the difference, first in the B channel only
(then in the composite). What happens is that the darkest parts of the
channel are still being lightened, as is anything nearby that isn't
necessarily dark (nearby being a function of the blur radius). This
preserves contrast (hence detail) locally.
The same thing is happening in Dan's alternative to Shadow/Highlight
in PP5E. You use a channel or channel blend to drive the lightening
and darkening, but you use a blur so as not to drive that blend to
neutral. If you're lightening or darkening some extreme point, you're
also doing it nearby, although not as much.
It is well worth subscribing to this forum - although a lot of it is way over my head, one gets quite a lot of interesting tips etc.
Chris,
I think the answer is really in answer 2.
Inverting the mask drives the blues to neutral without the blur.
I think it really is a function of how light / dark the blue channel is. I'll have to try that technique and see if I can see any difference. I'm betting I will zoomed in and looking at the clouds....
Greg
I think the answer is really in answer 2.
Inverting the mask drives the blues to neutral without the blur.
I think it really is a function of how light / dark the blue channel is. I'll have to try that technique and see if I can see any difference. I'm betting I will zoomed in and looking at the clouds....
Greg
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