It is very quiet out here....

This board is for the March 2009 Curvemeister 101 class.
ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:38 pm

Is everyone getting what they need??

Greg

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Postby mikemeister_admin » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:55 pm

Greg,

I will confess that I'm frustrated about the neutral issue from last week and so I don't have much motivation!

-Jay

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Postby ggroess » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:26 am

Jay,
Can you try to look past it...

The neutral is sometimes a very simple thing and sometimes a very hard one.  The whole idea really boils down to what looks right.  You are creating a neutral from the pin that is certain.. Setting a neutral that is unreal causes you to have color casts or if casts exist in the image they can be removed with a good neutral setting.

Let's try this...do a color correction on the image below. 

Goals for this exercise:
Increase color, contrast and overall image quality.  DO NOT set a neutral...

The rational...neutrals only help when they really exist or can reasonably be inferred.  Certain colors of concrete, a shadow on white etc. Neutral need not be gray.. true whites or true blacks can be neutral if they are true "enough".

I'll keep the dialog open and we can take this off line if you feel the need..Let me know what I can do to help...I hate the fact that I have confused you on this subject.

Greg

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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:24 am

Greg,

OK, here is my correction.  I didn't use a highlight pin because I couldn't find a white spot, and similarly I didn't use a shadow pin because I couldn't find a black spot that wasn't in the background.  All I did was adjust the Lightness curve, trying to get more contrast.

-Jay

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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:05 am

Hi, I'm just having a busy week at work, but I will post my CYMK in a mo jo!

Jay, we haven't got to know each other very well yet, but I'll start with the pillow talk.

I never take the photos too seriously as they are a means to an end - using CM and learning curves for future photos.  Mike and Greg take delight in challenging us (as they should) and this is half the fun.  My photos are never accurate, but at least I've learnt to trust my instincts more.  Lets face it, if I had a photo with the exposure of the merry-go-round or the kites, it would go in the bin and I'd move onto the next photo.

Forgive my patronizing tone - its an occupational hazard as a primary school teacher.  I'll get back in my box now.

Mandy


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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:37 pm

Hi Manda.  Thanks for the input.  I understand your point, but as a CM beginner I have not found the "challenging" to be "fun."  When I finally gave up on the duck I'd spent 4-5 hours on it and by that point had no clue what I was trying to accomplish, or why one result was better than another!

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:13 pm


Greg,

OK, here is my correction.  I didn't use a highlight pin because I couldn't find a white spot, and similarly I didn't use a shadow pin because I couldn't find a black spot that wasn't in the background.  All I did was adjust the Lightness curve, trying to get more contrast.

-Jay


Good..I would be hard pressed to find any of those in the image as well.  Start with a straight L curve and try this...

Have you tried the "threshold feature" of CM?  To use it place your mouse on the left or right side of the L curve in LAB, the RGB composite Curve in RGB.  The mouse pointer will turn into a double sided arrow with bars in the middle.  Left click and drag the edged of the frame into the curve graph.  You will see a red dashed vertical line as you move the highlight or shadow threshold across the curve box.  Also watch the image it will turn into a high contrast mask. 

For the shadows look for black spots...tiny at first but then getting bigger and starting to block out the shadows.  Move the threshold line out to the edge where you started and slowly move in until you have just a few black specks.

This is the shadow threshold.  It may not be black, It is the darkest pixel values in the image.

Repeat for the lightness side of the curve.  You will have then set the highlight threshold.  This limits the output to the brightest highlights..not necessarily white.

You have now defined the contrast range of the image and told PS where the brightest areas with detail are and the darkest areas with detail as well.  These might be areas that on you monitor seem to be black.  Remember the monitor cannot display all the pixels a printer can print.

After you have set the Shadow and Highlight then adjust the curve to get full detail in the brighter areas and the darker ones.  Watch the petals of the flower as you adjust the curve..Make sure the texture in the petals stays visible.

Jay you are asking great questions and I hope you do not give up...I can see the fun factor dropping hard with you being frustrated...Please hang in there...

Greg


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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:25 pm

Hi Ive posted a notice board image and will do some of the others tomorrow

Mick

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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:56 pm

Jay, you almost had it with your "S" curve in lightness.The detail for the flower is contained in that spike.Theangle the curve crosses it  at determines how much detail you get.If you mouse over the petals you'll see a yellow "worm" at  about 70 on the graph.Pull down on the dot at 64 and you increase the contrast(detail) of the flower.Raise it and the image washes out.Apply the same principle to the dot at 20 and you can controll the background.GregM-the other Greg
P.S. I moved the saturation slider to 1.36,more yellow.The green can be modified also.

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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:27 pm

OK, I tried again using input from both Greg G (thresholding) and Greg M (getting a good slope on the curve as it crosses over the spike on the L curve, and also bumping up the saturation.

-Jay


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