JoAnn's Duck Week One

This is the Class board for the Curvemeister 101 class.
joann
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:19 pm

Postby joann » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:45 pm

This is my Duck.
I forgot to add comments. I think the Lab shows more detail than the RGB. And the colors are richer. I added more color in the Lab mode.
JoAnn H
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ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:22 am

Joann,
These look very nice....really...

In the LAB duck you can make 2 VERY SMALL CHANGES... I use caps here because they are really no big deal but I get the impression that you are trying hard to get these completely right so here we go....

If you look at shot 2 it is your ACV file loaded against my copy of the duck image.  Take a look at the hue clocks I have placed on the image.

NOTE: To place Hue Clocks like these "Alt-Click" on your image.  You can add as many as you want...They can be confusing at first but they lead you to the right correction.  It's like having the info pallet open 3 times at once...

The LAB hue clocks I have set show that in the white parts there is a slight yellow / green cast.  I took out the yellow by moving your B channel neutral point straight up.  Click on the point and use the arrow keys.  Watch the hue clocks change and pay very close attention to the whites.  Because you hit the highlight details so well the color shift is more obvious than if you had blown them out.  When you remove the yellow the very slight green cast is acceptable on my monitor so I did nothing about it. 

Second small change...The shadow detail is great but the separation between the head of the duck and the background is a bit lacking.  You can adjust the shadow end of the curve to open it a bit and separate the head from the background a bit.  Look at the l channel and try to adjust yours as I have and see if you can find a nice happy medium between the two...

Great work really...
Greg


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ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:36 am

Joann,
RGB Duck has a very similar problem just a different channel...This is good... it is highly fixable and easily seen when you know where to look.

I'll post your ACV on my copy of the image with the hue clocks on it below...I can tell you that the neutral is a bit off...look at the hue clock on the leg band.  The B channel is out of line for a known neutral.  Try moving the B channel neutral a bit and see if the overall image gets better for you...

Question...Do you use the hue clock on the upper right of the CM window when you set your neutral?  Some things to note about the hue clock...
the length of the arm is the saturation value for the color. the longer the arm the more saturated the color.  The hue clock on the CM window does not show the color indicators that the alt-click clocks do...that is a disadvantage at first but after you get used to it the hue clock can be fast and easy.

There are many times when something you perceive as a neutral has a pretty strong cast.  If you stare at the screen long enough the color begins to look very neutral even when it is not.  When I set a neutral I do not shoot for perfection.  I try to find a spot that is -2 to +2 in either channel and fairly equal between the channels.  If any 1 channel is way out of line it most likely will not make a good neutral point. Unless I know for certain it is neutral then I force the issue.

Great stuff, you are really getting better even if you don't feel it yet...your images are really close and I have been a bit nit-picky.  I hope you understand.

Greg


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joann
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Postby joann » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:04 pm

I have never used a hue clock because I don't know how. I don't know how to interpret the numbers. Also, I don't know how to interpret the number for neutral. Actually, I don't know very much at all. I don't know what a worm is and how you interpret that either. Sure would like to know how all this works.
I want you to be nit-picky. I'm not going to learn if you are not.
Thanks for your help.
JoAnn H

mikemeister_admin
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Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:29 pm

Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:51 pm

I keep this piece of paper by my monitor.Too much red,increase blue and green or cut the red(or if you can boost cyan a bit).GregM
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joann
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Postby joann » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:14 pm

What do the number you have written in mean?
Now it's beside my monitor too. Thanks,
JoAnn H

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:49 pm

Joann,
OK...Let's go back a bit....NOT A PROBLEM.....

The hue clock is a tool that will tell you what color is under the selected point.  The way you read one is really pretty simple.  It can be confusing at times but let's start with RGB.

The RGB hue clock shows you a clock face with all of the major hues RGBCMY shown around a clock face and three numbers R, G, B. These represent the Red, Green, and Blue channels within the image and define all of the color available in the RGB space. The values of the numbers represent the brightness of the selected pixel from 0 to 256.  Zero being black and 256 being white. In the case of CM we sample a pixel and those around it to get a average for the selected pixel.  So if your CM sample size is 3 pixels, you actually sample 9 pixels and get an average.  This is good because you rarely get an exact pixel selected..

http://www.curvemeister.com/support/curvemeister2/help/Manual/HueClock.htm There is a ton of info out there on hue clocks but start here as well.

The CM hue clocks give you an advantage by showing you the original values and the changed values so you might see an entry like this  R 120 / 135  This shows that you brightened the selected Red channel pixel from 120 to 135.  

Neutral on the hue clocks is when the numbers for a selected pixel are all equal.  Any number value can be neutral so long as each channel is the same value. In RGB it can be written as RGB 100,100,100.

In LAB which is different it can be L=100, A= 0, B=0 written as L100,A0,B0 In LAB the only neutral is the center of the A and B curves at Zero.  This makes it harder to understand at first but simple really since neutral is 0.

The color worm is another tool to help you understand the changes you are going to be making.  The worm shows you the "area" of the effect. example: if the worm is showing you a range of values from (100 to 200) on the curve and if you move the mid point of that range you will effect all the pixels under the worm to some extent.  The ends of the worm much less than the point you may have selected.

http://www.curvemeister.com/wiki/index.php?title=Color_Worms here is more information as well.

The effect GregM is describing is like tuning the color on your TV or PC monitor.  If the R value goes up you have to compensate by adding Green and Blue or removing some of the red.  Because on the color wheel Cyan is the color complement of Red you can add cyan to make the same Green and Blue change.  Cyan is between Green and Blue on the Hue Clock.  

We do this in CM by selecting a known neutral if we have one and then "tweaking" the color a bit to make it look natural and to improve the printed results.

The numbers can be misleading because the hue clock shows you the Pixel value in the image file.  IF your monitor is not adjusted correctly you can have a pixel that the numbers say is neutral but your eyes tell you it is red.  This is the color correction equivalent of being color blind.  It is one of the reasons I asked about the hue clocks.  They translate across the various computers.   As long as your neutral numbers are correct I should see a neutral where you set it.  If you adjust the neutral visually you can introduce a color cast to your image because the monitor might be poorly adjusted.

I'm looking for resources to help you check the calibration of your monitor any suggestions for an easy package from the VIP's would be good...I think there are some listed on the CM site...I'll look.

Hang in there...
Greg
Let's keep the dialog open on this and you keep asking questions...


mikemeister_admin
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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:04 pm

On a color wheel,red is at 360 degrees or 0.In some Photoshop applications Hue is expressed as degrees.In HSB,put the pointer on a color and read the degrees.Reddest will be between 350 and10.GregM

joann
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:19 pm

Postby joann » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:11 pm

Thanks. I'll work on this. Gotta go to work....(I'd rather stay here and play)....
JoAnn H


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