Rhonda--Cathedral 2...not

This is the discussion thread for the September 2010 Class.
mikemeister_admin
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Postby mikemeister_admin » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:47 pm

Well, no luck whatsoever with this one.  I started it in LAB and got nowhere except shadows and neutral.  Saturating colors did nothing except make it look bizarre.  Went into RGB and tried to neutralize some of the blue cast out of the shadows with manipulating individuals numbers from hue clocks.  Same bad result.  You said:

In fact, you'll need to take care of the shadow point first, click apply, and come back in to Curvemeister to fix the blue cast (why is this necessary). On your second pass, use RGB, and remove the color cast by manipulating both the blue and green curves, so that the hue clocks look something like those shown here. A third and final pass in Lab is suggested to bump the colors and contrast.

I'm afraid I don't understand much of this.  "...and come back into CM to fix the blue cast"--aren't you already in CM when you are setting the shadow?  Or do we set it using Photoshop?  I know there is a way to do a black point threshold, but I can't remember how to do it.  I could do it using levels in PS.  By why?

Second and third pass?

I went looking for other posts of this image but I couldn't find any from which to glean any tidbits.  I may just go and look at the solution... :-)

OK-later, after looking at the solution--I see what you meant, it's just that I need explicit!  I don't recall anything about a string being said.  I also looked at the solution to the first cathedral against the blue sky, and you mentioned a string again along with something about leveraging which color or something.  ("Remembering the "string" rule, which color, red, green, or blue, do you think would give you the most leverage in moving the hue closer to blue?")  Could you please point me to the place that you talked about the string rule?

Sorry.  I feel very stupid on this image.



Rhonda

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:26 am

Multiple passes are when you apply the changes even though they are not completely correct so you can go back into CM and take another "pass" at the image...

I'm not 100 percent on the "string" so I am having trouble answering your question. 
If this is the brown church image the real problem is the blue shadows...that takes a bit of patience...

Yes you set a shadow and highlight point in CM but then sometimes when you reach too far for a correction or you work too hard... you need to apply the changes you have so far go back to Photoshop and then go back into the image again in CM.

The Black threshold in CM is done by Clicking on the shadow end of the Master curve frame in RGB or the shadow end of the L channel in LAB and dragging it into the curve frame. The shadow point will show up as little black spots that merge into splotches.  you want the spots in general.

Keep asking and I'll keep trying to get  you there...
Post a screen shot and let's see where you are...
Greg

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Postby mikemeister_admin » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:51 pm

You are so kind, Greg.  Thank you.  I have been always setting the highlight and shadow the way you mentioned--wonderful CM capability!  I just couldn't figure out about the multiple passes.  I don't have time now, but will try again later today.  Thanks again.  Rhonda

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Postby mikemeister_admin » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:06 pm

To me this is a challenging image.  I have set the shadow threshold and gone back in using RGB.  As you can see, I have multiple hue clocks, two in areas that looked like the ones you chose as examples in the lesson.  Don't know whether it was good or not, but I set a neutral on the gray pavement on the top.  Maybe it's because of where I chose to put the hue clocks, but I cannot equalize one without messing up another.  Looks slightly green on my monitor.  The last image is the original one I did in LAB--no screenshot--sorry.  I know it's blue.  I like it, but it doesn't address the assignment, which is the color cast :-)
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ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:16 am

Rhonda let's look at the the second image for this...you are pretty close here...My shot 1 shows 2 hue clocks on the image.  What are we seeing...

1) the shadows are too blue
2) The values for the blue are close together...so 1 adjustment is going to effect the other.
3) Both blue values are higher than the rest of the colors and we need to be closer to the other numbers.

So...
Since they are close together I lifted the end of the curve as shown in shot 2 to bring the blue shadows down a bit closer to the red and green values.  Not perfect but closer...I too had one adjustment start to mess up the other so I set two adjustment points on the blue curve.  One at 51 and then 1 at about 45.  The actual numbers are not as important as being able to limit the curves effect on the image.  Then I used the arrow keys to move the selected point at 45 around a bit to get the 2 clocks closer...it was not an exact science but rather a slow single arrow at a time process.  It really only took about a minute...
you are close here....
Greg
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mikemeister_admin
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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:07 am

Thanks, Greg.  I took my image back into CM and tried to duplicate your hue clock positions.  I was able to get both hue clocks to equalize, but then I added other clocks around the image to check other colors--the plot thickened.  All kinds of other casts... As I worked to correct them, my original two hue clocks that imitated your position, got out of whack. It seems that as you add clocks, the more unmanageable your image is.  Is it actually possible to get the casts out of the entire image?

When I said that the hue clock only gave one number I was comparing it to the input/output, in which there are two numbers, one for the vertical plane and another for the horizontal.  After you move on the curve and get a second number on the hue clock (after the slash) it is an "after" number--but is it the input or output number, or neither?  The first image is my post from above for comparison.  The second and third are the screenshot and Photoshop of my last re-work.

I think I'm going to move on to week 4--about time!
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ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:29 pm

Let's close this out with Take 2...

It is really very close just a bit more blue channel adjustment in the shadows.

Grge
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mikemeister_admin
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Postby mikemeister_admin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:56 pm

So, the compromise is that you can go crazy with too many hue clocks, when cleaning up the worst cast is usually sufficient, right?  Sometimes I need to grab myself by the shoulders and shake me, saying "Enough already!"  Ha--and I used to think that being a perfectionist was an asset!  ::)

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:27 pm

You get to take this as far as you want...

If the shadows are reasonable and the skin tone is good the highlight on the sidewalk can be a problem but you have to make some decisions about that...You cannot usually have it all unless you have a great exposure to start with.

We try... but some images are just not "complete" in the exposure regard.

Greg


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