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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:53 pm
by mikemeister_admin
there's a nice discussion on an alternative for Mac users for curvemeister

the one thing that I really would like to have is readings close to the mouse pointer.  as I move points on the curve and "mouse over" areas I have to watch the readout on the upper right of the curves frame.  If this could float as a seperate window that I can move to a more convenient place or if it tagged along with the mouse pointer, it would be easier to watch

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:30 am
by leeharper_admin
Hi William,

I'm sure that Mike would be able to do something like this, but I'm curious as to why it would be helpful? The mouse can't be over the image and moving points on the curve at the same time - do you mean that having made a point on the curve you move the mouse back onto the corresponding spot on the image, and use the arrow keys on your keyboard to move the curve point?

If that is what you are doing it seems like a lot of mousing around. How about this: when you set a hue clock on the image, the hue clock menu could have a 'Quick Pin' option (CM can do this if you right-click directly on the image [Quick Pin > Pin to Current], but the Hue Clock menu only offers 'Mark' and 'Contrast Pin'); having added a point via the hue clock, you can adjust it with the arrow keys whilst visually keeping your focus on the numbers in the hue clock...

Along those lines, the 'Contrast Pin' option could really do with a way to restrict its creation to a particular channel; for example, I often use the Lab contrast pin technique that Greg teaches in Week 6 of the CM101 course to enhance color variation in my images, but I don't always want to use the same area of the picture to create the A channel contrast pins that I want to use for the B channel contrast pins. At present it's quicker to create them manually than to mess about with deleting the pins that I don't want in a particular channel.

By the way, what do you think about the appearance of the hue clocks in the 'Power Info Palette' that you linked to? I think that I'd find all that color quite distracting. Having said that, I tend to use quite a few hue clocks when I correct, and having them all float directly over the image can make it quite difficult for me to see the picture I'm working on. I know that I can drag them to reposition them, but having to do that every time can get a bit tedious... I like the idea of some kind of "holding bay" for all of the hue clocks that I'm using.

Thanks for bringing this up - I think that color correction 'By the Numbers' is an essential component of all our workflows, and great that the hue clocks are, I'm sure that there is still room for improvement! I like the idea of CurveMeister having some kind of 'Heads-up Display' when the mouse is over the image (triggered by a key press). Certainly it could give you numeric readouts, but what else might be useful?

Lets all keep this going - we might come up with something really good!


Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:03 pm
by -default
I like the idea of a floating palette that follows the mouse, but I'm not sure I would always want it activated, and it is not something that I think the majority of customers would want.  So it would need to be an option.

Would the floating info palette be used by enough people to justify the added complexity?  Maybe.  Let's see if some more people chime in.

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:48 pm
by mikemeister_admin
I've been to Dan Margulis's class and he mouses around an area to check if any numbers he sees (in LAB) which do not meet the "by the numbers" criteria.  For example any negative numbers in skin that has no cosmetics... this is like putting hundreds or thousands of pins in.  I use a dual monitor display and park the curves on the right with the image & pins to the left.  As I mouse over, my field of view is such that I really cannot see both the image and the values of the cursor which are now on the upper far right.  If this could float as a window, I could drag it over the image... then it would behave like Photoshop's.  As a work around, I can drag the entire curves panel off the screen leaving only the upper right corner for "mousing around" the image

there is considerable discussion about an improved info panel being developed, primarily for Mac users that have no Curvemeister... I just thought the group should be aware of their collective thoughts on the matter.  Margulis's discussion group has over a dozen suggestions but you have to be a member of the group to see them.  however one of the italians has started a blog you can check out

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:49 pm
by leeharper_admin
I've been to Dan Margulis's class and he mouses around an area to check if any numbers he sees (in LAB) which do not meet the "by the numbers" criteria [...] this is like putting hundreds or thousands of pins in.

You can do this with the hue clocks in CM3:

  • Alt-click somewhere on the image to create a hue clock

  • Move the hue clock wherever is most comfortable for your field of view

  • Click/Drag the little anchor point attached to the hue clock readout around the screen - as you drag the target symbol about, the numbers in the hue clock will update, reflecting the current position of your cursor

Admittedly it's a less elegant solution than a BtN heads-up display, but until something like that comes along this will do the job.

I am a member of the ACT list, and have been following the discussion about the Info palette being developed; my own feeling is that many of the suggestions simply ask for things that CM already does... Which of the suggestions do you think would be appropriate features for CM?

By the way - I use a Mac; I've got Windows 7 installed via BootCamp just so that I can run CurveMeister - so I don't buy into the ACT chatter about how CM can't be used by Mac users; I think that if people wanted to use it, there's no reason that they can't...

What else should CM do, By the Numbers-wise?


Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:57 pm
by mikemeister_admin
I hadn't thought of that.... yes. that will work. forget I asked.

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:06 am
by ggroess

I'd like to hear more as well..  We really do want to help people make better use of the plugin.  You need not be sorry at all we are intrigued by the response of the "Mac community"  I think Lee has a very elegant solution to the Doesn't work on a Mac problem. 

Any other suggestions are always welcome.

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:07 pm
by leeharper_admin

I still think that there is room for improvement in terms of making the 'By the Numbers' workflow easier; personally, I find the BtN stage of the correction the most challenging, so I'd welcome any improvements that would make BtN easier (and I'm sure that color blind photographers would also appreciate further improvements).

Are there any suggestions from the ACT discussion that you think would be a good fit for CurveMeister? What more could the CM plugin offer that could be helpful?


Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:29 pm
by mikemeister_admin
pretty much I do a By the Numbers curve using multiple pins (Alt-Click) in just about any thing I think I know the color of... that may be on average 30-100. do the curving in RGB (image is in colorspace sRGB) and save the curve (since I apply it in Color blending mode by loading it into a Curves layer)... basically it's curve and check, curve and check. that is where I was wanting yet another way to sweep over an area.  sweeping by moving the sample point of a pin that was suggested here is really helpful and I've incorporated it into my workflow

then fire up Curvemeister a second time to curve for luminosity.  Shift-Click'ing the colors I want to enhance local contrast...

i pretty much never pin anything with a Cntrl-Click.  (any time I've tried to use this I've gotten in trouble. probably since I don't have good pins)

I know there's a lot more to Curvemeister but this is enough for me to use it EVERY time for BtN

Let me think about what else is needed. basically it's perfect for BtN other than sometimes quirky on moving an Alt-Click'ed point.  I've gotten into the habit of changing which curve (R, G or B) and clicking again on the point I want to move to select it, then move it with the arrow keys

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:07 pm
by ggroess
Some things to note...

If you have a Alt-click Sample point set you might want to check the sample size; if it is too big it can have some weird effects on the curves. 

You might want to look at the Zone System Pins for separate channel R or G o B curving as well it helps in the tonality workflow.  They can really help the mid-tone contrast.

Ctrl-Click does set a hard adjustment point on the curve so it you know that point is where you want to work it is a good way to mark the curve..There is also the Mark function where you can place a "mark" on the curve that is not a hard adjustment point.

Let us know if there are any other clunky points you might want some work around for. 
And please do let us know if there is something we can add to the program to make it work better.