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This forum is for the 201 Class preview testers and discussion.
ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:49 am

Everyone,

I know this has been a long road and I thank you all for listening, reading, and above all being incredibly patient and kind but...
I have a few more questions for you and I hope you can take the time to provide your personal answers.

My Questions for you are the following:

1) What is the hardest part of this class that you personally struggled with or are still struggling with?

2) What is in your mind missing from the class that would improve it?

3) How would you personally like to see the material delivered?  (Current plan is for the material to be subscription based per session with weekly conference calls and an open forum that is membership based for on-line discussion)

4) what do you feel the "reasonable cost for the class should be in total or per session?  The goal is to be balanced between affordable and too expensive to walk away from...Commitment is a good word for the price...

5) Have you found any glaring errors that you have not brought to light? (You can use the message system or my e-mail greg@curvemeister.com to send them to me if you do not want them in the public forum.)

6) Did you have fun?

I appreciate all of your time and input.  Thanks!

This is not the end but simply the beginning of the next phase. I am reviewing all of the postings and will be looking at the issues raised.

Greg



imported_ganna
Posts: 460
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:41 am

Postby imported_ganna » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:56 pm

Greg, if its okay, I may add more later, but for now a few thoughts:
1.Most difficult for me is to  "see" what is wrong.  When subtle, I can see something is wrong, but difficult to immediately identify what that "something" is; especially when there are "zone" problems.
2. As our knowledge grow, things may pop up
3. Fine the way you mention. Would like to have downloadable files for own reference/study.
4. Previously discussed on this forum; monitory values differ from country to country. I would accept what you decide.
5. None that I can find.
6. Lots and lots of fun
A huge big thank you so far

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:27 pm

Thanks Martin...
As I said it's not the end...

Greg

imported_artmar
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:33 pm

Postby imported_artmar » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:55 pm

Hi Greg,

I thought the course was excellent.

In answer to your questions:

1. I am still having difficulty with luminosity adjustments of individual channels. I can't seem to visualize the final result very well.  The blue channel is a particular problem for me -- it's usually a mess, particularly with foliage. I'm often tempted to throw it away. (I have to admit that I don't understand why it's so messy.)  It might be a good idea to have a number of practice images/exercises that focus specifically on contrast adjustments, so that students can compare their work, with one another and of course with yours. (Perhaps this is not a problem for others --)
2. Besides the above I can't think of anything that's missing.
3. I'm not sure what you mean by "subscription based per session". Students are going to pay by the individual session and not for the course? I think there should be a commitment to take the entire course.  I don't know how much time folks will have to devote to the material. Clearly, doing the exercises is crucial, but takes time. But if everyone works at his or her own pace, then the sense of community and going through it together and comparing solutions to exercises will be lost. I don't have a suggestion for this perplexity.
4. Not sure about the cost per session or for the entire course. This gets back to something that we discussed, in part, already. Who is this course intended for? Who's your target audience? There are so many Photoshop add-ons from Topaz, Nik, Perfect Effects, etc., (also free-standing) that people use currently, you have potent competition. Also, those companies have marketing sections that "get the product out".  In some respects I think cost is less of an issue (assuming it's "reasonable", as I'm sure it will be) than convincing folks that they will benefit from learning this material. Perfect Effects auto-contrast may be good enough for most people.  And with the shift to phone-based cameras, and inexpensive apps written specifically for them, those of us using DSLRs may be the dinosaurs, certainly the old guard of the photography world. I know this topic goes beyond the scope of the feedback you're asking for, but I think it will have a significant affect on the course, as in -- what if I give a (really great) party and no one shows-up? Not sure what to do about this, but think it's important to consider, whatever you conclude you want to do about it, which may of course be nothing because it's beyond your control.
5. No glaring errors. A few typos (I think I read "compliment" for "complement" -- trivial stuff like that).
6. Yes, definitely, learned a lot, and that, and having the opportunity to work with you, is always fun, and edifying!

P.S. You probably know that there's a quasi-competitor for Curvemeister -- "Channels Power Tools" -- by Giuliana Abbiati, who worked on developing DM's PPW panel. It doesn't do all that Curevmeister does, but it seems to do quite a bit (for $27). I want to direct you particularly to the videos she's posted on her website. They're very well done I think, with snazzy production values. Something like this for Curvemeister might be great PR (see link below):

http://www.knowhowtransfer.com/apps-photoshop-extension-filter-plugin/channels-power-tool-mask-editing-workflow-optimizer/

All best,
Art

ggroess
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 2:15 am
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Postby ggroess » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:39 pm


1. I am still having difficulty with luminosity adjustments of individual channels. I can't seem to visualize the final result very well.  The blue channel is a particular problem for me -- it's usually a mess, particularly with foliage. I'm often tempted to throw it away. (I have to admit that I don't understand why it's so messy.)  It might be a good idea to have a number of practice images/exercises that focus specifically on contrast adjustments, so that students can compare their work, with one another and of course with yours. (Perhaps this is not a problem for others --)


For me, the Blue channel has to go if...
a) It is so heavy it is obvious.
b) It has heavy shadows that effect my goals for the luminosity.
c) It has excessive noise in the highlights and sky that I can easily remove by replacing the channel.


3. I'm not sure what you mean by "subscription based per session". Students are going to pay by the individual session and not for the course? I think there should be a commitment to take the entire course.  I don't know how much time folks will have to devote to the material. Clearly, doing the exercises is crucial, but takes time. But if everyone works at his or her own pace, then the sense of community and going through it together and comparing solutions to exercises will be lost. I don't have a suggestion for this perplexity.


I guess the best way to describe the class structure we are looking at is granting access to the class for 1 year.  Hosting a weekly conference call to address any questions from CM201 in any phase.  Since we do not make a ton of money on the class the cost is really to make people stick it out to get their money back out of the class.


4. Not sure about the cost per session or for the entire course. This gets back to something that we discussed, in part, already. Who is this course intended for? Who's your target audience? There are so many Photoshop add-ons from Topaz, Nik, Perfect Effects, etc., (also free-standing) that people use currently, you have potent competition. Also, those companies have marketing sections that "get the product out".  In some respects I think cost is less of an issue (assuming it's "reasonable", as I'm sure it will be) than convincing folks that they will benefit from learning this material. Perfect Effects auto-contrast may be good enough for most people.  And with the shift to phone-based cameras, and inexpensive apps written specifically for them, those of us using DSLRs may be the dinosaurs, certainly the old guard of the photography world. I know this topic goes beyond the scope of the feedback you're asking for, but I think it will have a significant affect on the course, as in -- what if I give a (really great) party and no one shows-up? Not sure what to do about this, but think it's important to consider, whatever you conclude you want to do about it, which may of course be nothing because it's beyond your control.

Exactly...I want the class to be accessible but value for the dollar...Throwing a party no one attends is exactly the risk.


P.S. You probably know that there's a quasi-competitor for Curvemeister -- "Channels Power Tools" -- by Giuliana Abbiati, who worked on developing DM's PPW panel. It doesn't do all that Curevmeister does, but it seems to do quite a bit (for $27). I want to direct you particularly to the videos she's posted on her website. They're very well done I think, with snazzy production values. Something like this for Curvemeister might be great PR (see link below):

http://www.knowhowtransfer.com/apps-photoshop-extension-filter-plugin/channels-power-tool-mask-editing-workflow-optimizer/

All best,
Art


Already looking at this one...Thansk!
Greg

imported_ganna
Posts: 460
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:41 am

Postby imported_ganna » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:33 pm

Art, I think this is good news for Mac users. Not much more than what you can do in PS alone, just short cuts. Does not even match CM's shadow

imported_artmar
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:33 pm

Postby imported_artmar » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:43 pm

Ganna,

Rather than intending to start a discussion comparing the relative merits of CM and CPT, I simply wanted to bring Greg's attention to the videos for CPT. I thought they were very well done, and could possibly suggest some ideas for how CM might be promoted.  Greg's response indicates that he's already looking into them.

We may well conclude that CM is a deeper and richer program, but I think that Giuliana Abbiati's elegant work deserves more than your offhand dismissal.

Best,
Art

imported_ganna
Posts: 460
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:41 am

Postby imported_ganna » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:32 am

True. agree with you

imported_julie
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:41 am

Postby imported_julie » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:13 am

Hi
Its taken me a few days to think about this

1 the hardest part

Not really sure. Right now I'd say the printing but a while ago I would have said something else. Its not a problem that's its hard, I just have to work it through and ask questions


2) What is in your mind missing from the class that would improve it?

I don't know if anything is missing. I guess it was more difficult doing it without the conference calls but they will be part of the class anyway.

3) How would you personally like to see the material delivered?  (Current plan is for the material to be subscription based per session with weekly conference calls and an open forum that is membership based for on-line discussion)

the subscription seems like a good idea - might be more difficult in practice if people come in and out and are at very different levels but I have faith you will manage that if it occurs. I really like access to a PDF to have with me to refer to and scribble notes on. The videos are good too. It would be good to be able to download them or buy a CD but I also understand you only want paying students to have access to them.


4) what do you feel the "reasonable cost for the class should be in total or per session?  The goal is to be balanced between affordable and too expensive to walk away from...Commitment is a good word for the price...

I really don't know. I think you don't charge enough. The reality of exchange rates is a problem though

5) Have you found any glaring errors that you have not brought to light? (You can use the message system or my e-mail greg@curvemeister.com to send them to me if you do not want them in the public forum.)

There are a few small editing errors, that's all.

6) Did you have fun?

Absolutely! But I had to think a lot too

I have really enjoyed this and have learnt a great deal.
Sign me up for the first class.

The best thing is I have really started to think about what I am doing, and why I am doing it
Its helped a lot.
I have really been struggling with BTN at times and getting results that looked way too yellow overall
Because I have been part of this group I have taken the time to really try to understand what I am doing
I figured out I was choosing neutrals that were really influenced by blue colour casts - it was throwing the whole result off
I have started choosing areas with a slight colour cast rather than heavy and it's made the world of difference
I'm not sure I could have made that discovery a few months ago. 
'Seeing', and thinking about what I am seeing has changed what I do.
I'm looking forward to more

Thanks for your time
Julie





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