Week 5

This forum is for the 201 Class preview testers and discussion.
ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:09 pm

Everyone,
I am writing Week 5.  It will be up soon.

I have moved the printing assignment from Week 1 to Week 5 and will be adding additional thoughts on output process and wrapping up the class.  There will be 2 challenge images for voting via the new "challenge" process that process will be private for the class and there will be 2 images from you to be completed for the week.

Do you think there needs to be anything else added to the course?
I am polishing and taking your suggestions forward for all of the weeks so if you have anything you want me to address in earlier weeks the window will be open for another week or so.  I am re-reading all of the forum posts to make certain I have covered the issues you have identified.

I will also be producing PDF files of the class pages or possibly word documents so that grammar and spelling can be checked.

Greg

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:13 pm

As I am writing and researching some reference materials for this week I am struck by the question...
"Yeah, but what do the students want to know how to do..?"

your thoughts on that will help me greatly.

imported_ganna
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Postby imported_ganna » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:43 pm

Very difficult to say anything, because we do not know what you are about to share.  Something I would like to know is what to do to make sure the image print in the  colours and tones that you see on the screen (in Photoshop)

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:27 pm

Well that hopefully is the bulk of it...
Would information about Color Profiles be helpful?  I do not and cannot teach a calibration process as I do not really use one.
It's shaping up to be how I did it for my show and what were the hurdles and how I worked them out with a minimum of hardware and software adjustments.  Plus the printing assignment to get you motivated to change.

imported_ganna
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Postby imported_ganna » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:51 pm

Great, I'm looking forward :)

imported_julie
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Postby imported_julie » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:16 pm

Hi
Ive been thinking of this question all night.
The biggest problem for me in answering this is, I don't know what I don't know.
And the more I learn the less I seem to know!
The stuff I have learnt over the last few years I didn't know existed before I started.
I remember being absolutely amazed the first time you used channels to improve contrast in one of my images.
I would not have known how to even ask that, I didn't really know about channels!
Now I use them all the time.

I think what is in 201 is great but I also suspect it will have me asking more questions.
I guess the Skype sessions will be good for that.

Like Ganna I would like to know more about printing and it sounds like that's covered.

Julie



imported_artmar
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Postby imported_artmar » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:20 pm

I'd find a discussion of Color Settings in Photoshop useful. What are the pros and cons of using Prophoto RGB as the Working Color Space and then converting to sRGB if posting to the web (for example)?  Adobe Camera RAW and Lightroom use Prophoto RGB, shouldn't we just continue to use that in PS? Or not?
Given that an increasing number of monitors can now display full (or 98% of) Adobe RGB as well as sRGB, why would we use the latter as a working color space? 
Also, I don't understand the relationship between RGB in Curvemeister and the Working RGB space in PS. Which RGB space is used in Curvemeister?

Cheers,
Art

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:11 pm

Julie,
Rest assured that I too am always learning and discovering.  That is the hook for me.  Don't be concerned that you find new techniques...Embrace them and try them out.  Those that work for you keep.  Those that do not file away and pull them out in a really difficult image they just might save you.  Because there is so much to remember, I would suggest a notebook or binder of "techniques".  Sometimes I can remember that there is a way but not the specifics of the way...To the notebook!

Art,
This is what I was looking for...Thanks!  I'll try to sort some of the RGB issues out for you.  I am finding much in the way of opinion and preference but I want to be a bit more definitive.  Oh and no one knows the hive mind of Adobe...not even Adobe sometimes...

Greg

imported_artmar
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Postby imported_artmar » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:33 pm

Thanks Greg --

One of the arguments I've read for using Prophoto RGB as the working space involves the following scenario: let's say you're working on an image in sRGB; you increase the overall saturation by 10%; the colors in the "middle" of the space will increase by that amount, however those near the edge of the space will be clipped and can only increase by, for example, 2%. If you subsequently lower the overall saturation by 10% the colors in the middle of the space will return to their initial position; however, the colors at the edge that were clipped at only 2% rise will be 8% lower than their initial position. Therefore, the color space has been distorted due to the limited gamut of sRGB; hence, work in Prophoto RGB.
I don't know if this is a valid argument or not.  Will be interesting to hear your thoughts!

Cheers,
Art

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:03 pm

I am thinking about how to best show the information I am finding and collecting regarding profiles and color spaces...

Would you think a Grid or flow chart is easier to understand for how to get from input to output.  There is no definitive answer but I want to try to present the info in the easiest form possible for you.

Art,
What I am finding about ProPhoto is interesting but it appears to be only a working space unless your printer or service supports ProPhoto profiles attached to the image.  If they do not support ProPhoto then they are most likely converting to sRGB and you are losing your gains in any case.  A better process might be to use ProPhoto as a working space and "convert to profile" prior to save so that you can adjust the image and try to save some of the gains in Post Processing. 

To me right now...open to change here...this is a lot like LAB as a color space.  You know you are creating colors that do not print in sRGB but you take the gains in any case and accept the loss as acceptable.  Since LAB is even wider than ProPhoto and you can access it via CM you might want to just bring the image into PS in sRGB1966 at 16 bits and use CM in LAB to do the color and tone work.. then you do not have to manage a profile going in and coming out. 

More info coming...Week 5 is shaping up...
Greg


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