Week 2 Link.

This forum is for the 201 Class preview testers and discussion.
ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:46 pm

http://curvemeister.com/curvemeisterwp/?p=769

Week 2 is still a work in progress with the videos.  Please be patient as I work on these over the next week or so.

Greg

imported_ganna
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Postby imported_ganna » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:15 pm

Thanks a lot my friend, we'll start going through them :)

imported_ganna
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Postby imported_ganna » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:14 pm

Greg, I'm really excited. I just had time to read through and big barndoors already opened. You've answered some of the questions I have. To a great extend, this is the "why" of the "how"  I only now understand the full story about using Dans' PPW as a recipie and not quite know when and why, like hit and hope. I also realised anew that with "seeing" how easily one can end up with blinkers on.  Seeing does not start in post editing or in taking the photograph,its before that and an importand part of planning.
A problem I find with hobbyists like me, is that you lack lots of background knowledge. I remember, not so long ago with me,  because I was unsure of what the final image should look like, its difficult to have a picture in your mind as to what you want to achieve.  I can see this  course will also refine ones knowledge and "feeling" as to what it should be like. I guess some people are born with an artistic talent, and find this easy. Others, like me, have to learn and develope it. Thats why I'm so happy to be part of this forum. Thanks

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:32 pm

Martin,
I am so very glad you are enjoying the materials.  I will tell you that it has taken me quite some time as you well know to get the words and the ideas straight in my own mind.  This is something I learned.  I was not necessarily born with it.  My problem has been finding the right way to put it all together.

It is a confidence thing.  I understand it the way I understand it...To teach you to understand it my way was fruitless.  I sought out help.  When I found the right concepts for the seeing ideas, the material just poured out of me in about a month.  The rest has been making the assignments and other materials fit the seeing part. 

As for DM and the PPW I always remember this...Dan was a pre-press guy when I was a young photographer.  He brings his experience and vision from the Pre-press to his current workflows and teaching.  How does he know??  He tests and proves, he combines old ideas with new technology and then he tests some more.  At the end of the day Dan does not need the PPW.  It is a part of every image he adjusts.  He wrote it to try to help others get better and advance not for his use. If he uses it he probably uses it like a shortcut.  We should too. We should learn and know what Dan is doing in the PPW so we can go beyond it.  Dan has...

For every image we take apart in this class there are millions just like it and totally unlike it.  We have to adapt and change every time we open an image otherwise we would just hit the "fix-it" button and everything wrong with the image would be fixed.  How do we adapt and change... We learn to see whats wrong, make a plan and fix it if we can.  Some things cannot be fixed...That is also something we need to learn.

Your note made me smile for a very good long time...THANK YOU!...It shows me that as clunky as I feel this is right now it still gets the message across.  It adds fuel to my fire to finish and begin teaching this material so we can all explore and expand together.

Greg ;D ;D ;D ;D


imported_ganna
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Postby imported_ganna » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:30 am

Greg, I see chapter 4 of Modern PS Color Workflow is about contrast and application of the "Apply Image" Also where Dan use for instance 30% of the Blue channel in Darken mode into the Red channel to prevent midtones from blowing out when you increase the contrast  (when Red channel is lightish). I can see that Dans' book is going to make a lot more sense after 201. Problem is Dan actually wrote his books for PS Professionals and we mortals are trying to catch up :)

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:27 pm

I think the one thing I have learned from my very minor interactions with Dan is that anyone can be a PS Pro. 
During some of his challenge images Myself, Mike, Lee and even Steve Jordan have all made it into the final cuts. 

In fact I thought his critique of my challenge image was off the mark and dismissive since I used none of his techniques and in fact used most of my own. Trouble was he could not just dismiss me out of hand because my image was extremely competitive and beat out some of the other images by a long shot. The proof was in the pudding so to speak.

Dan's use of the blue channel fixes a problem he created by having the PPW make assumptions about the image.  When you choose the channel you might not always choose the red channel because of the contents.  Lastly, what does he do if the blue channel is a total wipe out...It does happen and it will be a mess.

I'm glad I have your gears turning...This is where real learning is...


imported_ganna
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Postby imported_ganna » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:44 pm

Greg, a few thoughts:
1. I realize that I lack the vocabulary to describe what I see in some ways.
2. How do you scan your images (with your eyes)? Do you have a spcific method or routine, like going through the points on your list or is it just random?
3. The Zone system. I'm learning more and I can see it starts when or even before taking the shot. How does it influence your settings on your camera and your metering?

ggroess
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Postby ggroess » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:33 pm

Martin,
For me some of the work starts when I am deciding to press the shutter.  I will think about how this will look on the PC and where my trouble areas are.  I see the dark shadows in the frame and the bright highlights.  I imagine if the difference is too great what will I do...Many times I will shoot the scene 2 ways...Once for shadows and mid tones and once for highlights and mid tones.  Then when I get back to the PC I might make an ACR correction or sometimes I use Enfuse and combine the images.  http://software.bergmark.com/enfusegui/Main.html as an HDR.

re: Scanning...I visually scan the image.  An example of my process is in the liked videos for shadows.

re: Vocabulary...Your terms for what you see might not be the same as mine.  I answered this in a posting to another forum one time as follows:

As usual it is a resounding yes and no...There are tons of websites that will help you with post processing; just like any other specific subject there is a language you kind of pick up about post processing as you do it more.
My terms for your examples for instance would be "locked up" shadows and "opened" shadows. Locked up being all black and no details. Open being tonal differences and details visible in the deepest shadows. If we use an open definition of the problem; anything that sounds oppressive could be linked to "too much" and anything that sounds free or open would mean correct or better.
Items that include a verb like "lift" would imply change in a direction lifting to me means making them lighter and more open. Crushing something makes it more compact and smaller being pressed down...
I know the semantics are odd at best but the items being discussed are subjective in nature and open to various interpretations. People attach the closest analogy they can think of to convey the message. When talking about images in these terms the results are not so subjective. There either is or is not detail in the shadows and highlights. That is the heart of the issue and the descriptions of people are the variables.
It is the same with saturation and contrast. Something is either too "flat" meaning that the contrast curve is not very steep and could use some help; "increasing" contrast is actually making the contrast curve slope steeper (less flat). Things are generally saturated, over saturated or under saturated terms like "bright or lackluster" might be applied. I also use the term "expanded". For me "expanded" color is increasing the difference between two different hues of the same color. Others might call this color contrast, or even saturation increase but they are actually different. A straight saturation increase (boost) is pretty linear in nature while a color expansion is restricted to a certain color or family of colors and usually involves a much smaller part of the image.
While I know this is not a final or definitive answer I hope it helps. Getting good books on the subject also will help you. Anything written by Dan Margulis is a good start. Dan is one of the color correction guru's out there and has written some of the bets books on the subject.


So don't be afraid of the terms...please share yours they might make more sense than mine.

Greg

imported_julie
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Postby imported_julie » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:25 am

Hi Greg

Just had a chance to have a look at week 2.
Its clear and well designed.
Its rally fantastic, thanks for all your effort and willingness to share.
Its going to be a great class.
I will start working my way through this over the next couple of days to give you some detailed feed back.

Julie

imported_ganna
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Postby imported_ganna » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:51 pm

Greg, I cannot add any contend to this week. It is great. One suggestion: Is it possible to mention soures where one can read up more about  spesific items; I know it is impossible to write a comprehensive review of everything, it will be too much for a course like this.
I really want to give you a pat on the back for this so far, well done :)
Regards
Martin 


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