Everyone,
I am looking to open a CM101 Class for September.
The past 3 times I have offered the class there has been zero interest. (It's my breath right...I think I need a mint. 8) )
I am looking for some insight as to why that would be and I am open to suggestions to change that trend.
Please respond with suggestions or questions. I will be setting up the class and sending out a newsletter soon.
Greg
CM101 Class
I would be interested in the class but I may have some date conflicts. I haven't had a real chance yet to see some of the other videos that are on You Tube and other locations. Interactive classes are nice but sometimes the time commitments are difficult. Perhaps a class that we could purchase and view on our own schedules and then post questions to a forum would be nice. The classes could be broken up like beginner (interface, basic uses, etc) Intermediate (Pinning, masking, color matching, advanced features). I have purchased a lot of classes from Jason O'Dell and then followed up with a one day on line class for advanced follow up. From a time standpoint it worked really well. I had an understanding of what we were going to do on the on-line portion.
Mike
Mike
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imported_julie
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:41 am
Hi Mike
I have done this class a couple of times and I would recommend it wholeheartedly.
I live in Australia so time commitments were at times awkward for the Skype linkups.
At that time Greg was recording them and I could watch them later but in the end I got up early or stayed up late as I thought they were so valuable.
Apart from the linkups I worked at my own pace and the time commitment was really up to me 1-2 hours or 10-12, you choose.
The support is simply spectacular and access to all videos and class info extends for 12 months (I think).
You do not pay any extra for the videos or pdf's of each week's class.
The forums are great when you know what to ask, but the class is better when you are first using curvemeister.
I would admit the first couple of weeks were a steep learning curve but I am self taught with big gaps in my knowledge, had never used curves before and was grappling with photoshop. You may find it easier.
I think Greg massively undercharges for this class and would be happy to pay double or triple the amount - and that's American not Australian dollars.
I would really recommend giving it a go even if you have to miss some of the linkups - most of it can be done in your own time and Greg is available via for class forum for personalised questions and advice.
Anyway as you can see I am a convert. I love this program! My images are so much better and I have access to a forum where nastiness is simply not tolerated.
I don't think you will be disappointed
Julie
I have done this class a couple of times and I would recommend it wholeheartedly.
I live in Australia so time commitments were at times awkward for the Skype linkups.
At that time Greg was recording them and I could watch them later but in the end I got up early or stayed up late as I thought they were so valuable.
Apart from the linkups I worked at my own pace and the time commitment was really up to me 1-2 hours or 10-12, you choose.
The support is simply spectacular and access to all videos and class info extends for 12 months (I think).
You do not pay any extra for the videos or pdf's of each week's class.
The forums are great when you know what to ask, but the class is better when you are first using curvemeister.
I would admit the first couple of weeks were a steep learning curve but I am self taught with big gaps in my knowledge, had never used curves before and was grappling with photoshop. You may find it easier.
I think Greg massively undercharges for this class and would be happy to pay double or triple the amount - and that's American not Australian dollars.
I would really recommend giving it a go even if you have to miss some of the linkups - most of it can be done in your own time and Greg is available via for class forum for personalised questions and advice.
Anyway as you can see I am a convert. I love this program! My images are so much better and I have access to a forum where nastiness is simply not tolerated.
I don't think you will be disappointed
Julie
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imported_julie
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:41 am
Hi Greg
I have no idea what is happening.
Do you send out the info to all new buyers of the program
I know the first time I did the course it took a while to find out it was even on.
Would it be worth looking at the order of the items in the drop down menu?
Weekly screen share sessions is first - but it is possible to do the class and not join them
Should it be last? perhaps saying 'recorded for those who cannot attend'.
Maybe it is just not visible enough.
I just did a quick internet search and if you don't know the name already it may be hard to find
Maybe good to think how you can get the brand out in photography forums and image processing searches
Couldn't even find it on wikapedia.
Unfortunately I also think the problem of the instant photo may be affecting things too
The number of people who ask my why I carry a camera when I have a phone is astonishing :'(
I try to be polite but seriously...
Good luck with it
Julie
I have no idea what is happening.
Do you send out the info to all new buyers of the program
I know the first time I did the course it took a while to find out it was even on.
Would it be worth looking at the order of the items in the drop down menu?
Weekly screen share sessions is first - but it is possible to do the class and not join them
Should it be last? perhaps saying 'recorded for those who cannot attend'.
Maybe it is just not visible enough.
I just did a quick internet search and if you don't know the name already it may be hard to find
Maybe good to think how you can get the brand out in photography forums and image processing searches
Couldn't even find it on wikapedia.
Unfortunately I also think the problem of the instant photo may be affecting things too
The number of people who ask my why I carry a camera when I have a phone is astonishing :'(
I try to be polite but seriously...
Good luck with it
Julie
Julie,
You are too kind regarding the description of the class. I'm glad you enjoyed it and as I tell everyone all the time our passion is for helping you make great images. Getting onto the forums you suggest is a great way to get people interested. The trouble is that we as "owners" of the program get slammed for advertising if we post to those forums. We want to play nice and inform but get accused of selling and banned if we are not very careful. I do have a few users that have posted notices for me and I guess I could go incognito on those sites but I really do not like to lie to people. I do use sites like reddit and post frequently to the Photocritique and Post Processing forums there but I never disclose CM unless someone asks. Again, to avoid the "You're Selling" flags and nastygrams.
Mike,
We have looked at a different charging model but to be honest the videos compliment the class rather than dominate it. Selling the videos at this point without a major re-build of the class will be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. I'm sure it will get some attention. We want to get information out and we want it to be convenient.
Greg
You are too kind regarding the description of the class. I'm glad you enjoyed it and as I tell everyone all the time our passion is for helping you make great images. Getting onto the forums you suggest is a great way to get people interested. The trouble is that we as "owners" of the program get slammed for advertising if we post to those forums. We want to play nice and inform but get accused of selling and banned if we are not very careful. I do have a few users that have posted notices for me and I guess I could go incognito on those sites but I really do not like to lie to people. I do use sites like reddit and post frequently to the Photocritique and Post Processing forums there but I never disclose CM unless someone asks. Again, to avoid the "You're Selling" flags and nastygrams.
Mike,
We have looked at a different charging model but to be honest the videos compliment the class rather than dominate it. Selling the videos at this point without a major re-build of the class will be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. I'm sure it will get some attention. We want to get information out and we want it to be convenient.
Greg
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imported_julie
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:41 am
Greg,
Not being kind, just accurate.
I guess I will try some of the forums and get the word out.
I have avoided them cause they are so nasty.
I have one friend who is a proper photographer and I will try to get him interested.
I have tried in the past but people get stuck in their editing habits.
Whats the nicest group you can recommend?
Julie
Not being kind, just accurate.
I guess I will try some of the forums and get the word out.
I have avoided them cause they are so nasty.
I have one friend who is a proper photographer and I will try to get him interested.
I have tried in the past but people get stuck in their editing habits.
Whats the nicest group you can recommend?
Julie
Julie,
Not to be smug but...Curvemeister...is the nicest group. We tolerate no hate mail and we allow no spam advertising. I totally get the reasons why other sites are so careful. The Yahoo groups for Photoshop and Photoshop Elements are good. They know us but the only allow users like yourself to promote the classes. another user from the CM forum "joann" will post there on occasion. One of the moderators (Chris) has been kind about us so long as we do not over sell the program.
Chris has taken parts of Week 1 so he gets it.
I have tried to get onto "RE-touch Pro" but they want us to do a 20 minute Photoshop video class about curves and then in the last 3 minutes of the class we could talk CM. We had to turn them down, because they feel that we do not bring enough to the table about re-touching unless we can teach curves without CM. We feel that CM is what makes curves accessible and powerful instead of hidden and clunky.
I have been on Reddit and have actually started a /r/curvemeister sub Reddit thread. it is my hope to build some interest by using CM to fix images in the r/Photocritique areas and point them to the CM thread and further to this forum.
People are much more in tune with the video part of the process and I have added so many more to our process but watching a video and reading the text are two different things. We do have to grow we just have to make our standards and techniques work in both arenas.
Greg
Not to be smug but...Curvemeister...is the nicest group. We tolerate no hate mail and we allow no spam advertising. I totally get the reasons why other sites are so careful. The Yahoo groups for Photoshop and Photoshop Elements are good. They know us but the only allow users like yourself to promote the classes. another user from the CM forum "joann" will post there on occasion. One of the moderators (Chris) has been kind about us so long as we do not over sell the program.
Chris has taken parts of Week 1 so he gets it.
I have tried to get onto "RE-touch Pro" but they want us to do a 20 minute Photoshop video class about curves and then in the last 3 minutes of the class we could talk CM. We had to turn them down, because they feel that we do not bring enough to the table about re-touching unless we can teach curves without CM. We feel that CM is what makes curves accessible and powerful instead of hidden and clunky.
I have been on Reddit and have actually started a /r/curvemeister sub Reddit thread. it is my hope to build some interest by using CM to fix images in the r/Photocritique areas and point them to the CM thread and further to this forum.
People are much more in tune with the video part of the process and I have added so many more to our process but watching a video and reading the text are two different things. We do have to grow we just have to make our standards and techniques work in both arenas.
Greg
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imported_artmar
- Posts: 327
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:33 pm
Greg,
I think there are several factors at play here. One is that, as Julie points out, a lot of people these days are using smart phones for photography, with the adventurous using apps that automatically create "interesting" effects, and see no need for anything beyond that. Second, it seems that more advanced photographers, even pros, who shoot with DSLRs are using Lightroom as their sole post-processing program, and are correcting color using the tint and temperature sliders, in conjunction with the white balance tool (and the selective adjustment brush to correct mixed light images). Third, most people, it seems, don't want to "understand" color correction in any depth -- they want quick fix procedures, particularly when peddled by quick talking "experts" who have a wide following on Youtube. Before I read this thread I mentioned CM on the DPReview Retouching Forum as a useful plug-in that significantly enhances Photoshop's color correction capabilities, and the response I received was that we already know lots of way to correct color without having to go to the trouble of using curves. Here are two videos that outline approaches that many people seem to find more than satisfactory, even revelatory:
(The threshold method using a 50% gray fill layer (as discussed in the first video), is, I gather, considered extremely sophisticated (even though it seems to be based on a fallacy). The second video shows another approach to color correction that has the "gee whiz" factor.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltQ0uDqOv_o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7moRbqEpc
A quick and snappy delivery seems to be key -- also imparting the sense that, hey, this is cool and easy, you can do it too! (and of course looking at numbers and hue clocks is neither of these -- which is why in these videos the "correction" is not evaluated afterwards, and no assessment of the color shifts is done before). And notice how short these videos are.
So, I think that, unfortunately, there may be a dwindling audience for a serious in-depth introduction to color correction; and that there are a number of different color spaces that have unique properties that can be utilized to the benefit of correcting and enhancing an image is probably considered unnecessarily arcane information.
A sobering perspective I know.
For my next post I'm going to think of some positive ideas!
Art
I think there are several factors at play here. One is that, as Julie points out, a lot of people these days are using smart phones for photography, with the adventurous using apps that automatically create "interesting" effects, and see no need for anything beyond that. Second, it seems that more advanced photographers, even pros, who shoot with DSLRs are using Lightroom as their sole post-processing program, and are correcting color using the tint and temperature sliders, in conjunction with the white balance tool (and the selective adjustment brush to correct mixed light images). Third, most people, it seems, don't want to "understand" color correction in any depth -- they want quick fix procedures, particularly when peddled by quick talking "experts" who have a wide following on Youtube. Before I read this thread I mentioned CM on the DPReview Retouching Forum as a useful plug-in that significantly enhances Photoshop's color correction capabilities, and the response I received was that we already know lots of way to correct color without having to go to the trouble of using curves. Here are two videos that outline approaches that many people seem to find more than satisfactory, even revelatory:
(The threshold method using a 50% gray fill layer (as discussed in the first video), is, I gather, considered extremely sophisticated (even though it seems to be based on a fallacy). The second video shows another approach to color correction that has the "gee whiz" factor.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltQ0uDqOv_o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7moRbqEpc
A quick and snappy delivery seems to be key -- also imparting the sense that, hey, this is cool and easy, you can do it too! (and of course looking at numbers and hue clocks is neither of these -- which is why in these videos the "correction" is not evaluated afterwards, and no assessment of the color shifts is done before). And notice how short these videos are.
So, I think that, unfortunately, there may be a dwindling audience for a serious in-depth introduction to color correction; and that there are a number of different color spaces that have unique properties that can be utilized to the benefit of correcting and enhancing an image is probably considered unnecessarily arcane information.
A sobering perspective I know.
For my next post I'm going to think of some positive ideas!
Art
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imported_artmar
- Posts: 327
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:33 pm
By the way, what I find hilarious, and scary, in the first video is how much worse off the color of the girl's face is when he's done "correcting" the image.
He says -- we've eliminated the red cast -- and her face is redder and her blouse has a strong magenta cast! Very odd. And he's a very popular and recognized "expert".
There's also a video made by Deke McClelland, who's apparently a well-known Photoshop trainer, who uses the same 50% gray method for color correction which makes a mess of things.
A.
He says -- we've eliminated the red cast -- and her face is redder and her blouse has a strong magenta cast! Very odd. And he's a very popular and recognized "expert".
There's also a video made by Deke McClelland, who's apparently a well-known Photoshop trainer, who uses the same 50% gray method for color correction which makes a mess of things.
A.
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