Future of Photoshop
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imported_ganna
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:41 am
I've been somewhat absent from CM for some time now due to several constraints, but I did want to weigh in on the Adobe CC fiasco as most users are calling it. I realize this is not the forum for complaints against Adobe corporate policies, but I'll try to take an objective if somewhat philosophical view.
Dan Margulis, arguably the "pro's pro" of color correction (along with Mike of course) has refused to endorse the move to "the cloud." His latest book Modern Photoshop Color Workflow is packed with information and techniques using CS6 features. As Dan has retired, this will be his final book, sadly. While all Photoshop releases are backwards compatible, they are not, obviously, forward compatible.
What that means to me as a serious hobbyist (and retiree), is that CS6 is the end of the line as it appears to be for most people. Philosophically (aside from the guaranteed endless bank-draft income anticipated), Adobe seems to have separated the big shop operations using all the tentatively linked Adobe products, from the photographer-only base. Learning curves being what they are, most high end shops have one user for each product, and they generate sufficient revenue to buy multiple subscriptions to the whole product line. For those of us considered "amateurs", Adobe leaves us a bone with Lightroom and Elements, which may well find a subscription-only base in coming months or years. Lightroom is little more than Adobe Camera Raw with a few plug ins, it is in no way a pixel-based editor as Photoshop is, and while CM adds fantastic functions to Elements, Elements still lacks some of the major features of Photoshop, and will not, of course, work in Lightroom.
Adobe has also sought to monopolize competition by buying up many mobile platform companies, thinking that anyone would want to use CC products on a tablet or (God forbid) a smartphone. This places a big question on developers as to how to proceed.
CM has spoiled me. I don't like Photoshop's tiny curve windows and seldom use them. My intention at this time is to retain CS6 indefinitely. I will not be sending $300/year to Adobe for the rest of my life to avoid being cut off from my digital editing software, nor will I allow them bank-draft access for $600 a year for a fleet of products I don't need or have time to learn. Hopefully, I can migrate CS6 to any new platforms I build in the coming year(s) and retain its functionality until such time that other competitors see the yawning gap and fill it (PSP, Gimp, etc.) with a few additional features that bring them up to CS6 functionality. I think it is difficult for the 7-8 figure income CEO at Adobe to understand why $600/year forever is not attractive to customers. $600 is the lunch tab at Adobe.
In the meantime, I strongly recommend anyone thinking of getting the latest and greatest version of CS6 to do so now while you are able. There is little in CC that is better than CS6, just some transform tool tweaks and a lingering, long-time promise of an anti-blur filter that has been shown for a year or so but never released. (I hold my camera steady, so I don't need that, either). Curvemeister is a fantastic product that should continue to serve us in CS6 into the foreseeable future. Don't miss a chance to stay on top, and if you can only afford Elements, grab the latest version while it's available as a stand-alone product and let Curvemeister bring it up to near CS6 standards.
Dan Margulis, arguably the "pro's pro" of color correction (along with Mike of course) has refused to endorse the move to "the cloud." His latest book Modern Photoshop Color Workflow is packed with information and techniques using CS6 features. As Dan has retired, this will be his final book, sadly. While all Photoshop releases are backwards compatible, they are not, obviously, forward compatible.
What that means to me as a serious hobbyist (and retiree), is that CS6 is the end of the line as it appears to be for most people. Philosophically (aside from the guaranteed endless bank-draft income anticipated), Adobe seems to have separated the big shop operations using all the tentatively linked Adobe products, from the photographer-only base. Learning curves being what they are, most high end shops have one user for each product, and they generate sufficient revenue to buy multiple subscriptions to the whole product line. For those of us considered "amateurs", Adobe leaves us a bone with Lightroom and Elements, which may well find a subscription-only base in coming months or years. Lightroom is little more than Adobe Camera Raw with a few plug ins, it is in no way a pixel-based editor as Photoshop is, and while CM adds fantastic functions to Elements, Elements still lacks some of the major features of Photoshop, and will not, of course, work in Lightroom.
Adobe has also sought to monopolize competition by buying up many mobile platform companies, thinking that anyone would want to use CC products on a tablet or (God forbid) a smartphone. This places a big question on developers as to how to proceed.
CM has spoiled me. I don't like Photoshop's tiny curve windows and seldom use them. My intention at this time is to retain CS6 indefinitely. I will not be sending $300/year to Adobe for the rest of my life to avoid being cut off from my digital editing software, nor will I allow them bank-draft access for $600 a year for a fleet of products I don't need or have time to learn. Hopefully, I can migrate CS6 to any new platforms I build in the coming year(s) and retain its functionality until such time that other competitors see the yawning gap and fill it (PSP, Gimp, etc.) with a few additional features that bring them up to CS6 functionality. I think it is difficult for the 7-8 figure income CEO at Adobe to understand why $600/year forever is not attractive to customers. $600 is the lunch tab at Adobe.
In the meantime, I strongly recommend anyone thinking of getting the latest and greatest version of CS6 to do so now while you are able. There is little in CC that is better than CS6, just some transform tool tweaks and a lingering, long-time promise of an anti-blur filter that has been shown for a year or so but never released. (I hold my camera steady, so I don't need that, either). Curvemeister is a fantastic product that should continue to serve us in CS6 into the foreseeable future. Don't miss a chance to stay on top, and if you can only afford Elements, grab the latest version while it's available as a stand-alone product and let Curvemeister bring it up to near CS6 standards.
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sjordan93436
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- Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:23 am
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I think it is a little early to check out of Photoshop. Adobe made a mistake. For years, we have know that they are a monopoly but accepted the every other cycle getting out our credit card and grudgingly moving ahead. We would grumble and accept. I maximize the value of a monopoly you need to maximize the its life. Technology monopolies can be unstable. They go great and crash and burn (Kodak, Polaroid, Telex, Xerox, Western Union). Brand monopolies (Coke, Jeep, Levi) can sustain.
There are two barriers to entry. The competitors to a monopoly would like to supplant number one or slide underneath and "clip coupons". One barrier is the Adobe technology and interface. That is substantial. But perhaps more intimidating is the users inertia. If a competitor was very close to Adobe, and similar price would you jump today. How about a year ago.
Somebody at the top has to see the danger to their franchise and patch. What if... for say $100 +/- a year you get access to the latest and greatest CS and old and moldy. Would you jump because Corel charging 80 a year for something "as good as",
There are two barriers to entry. The competitors to a monopoly would like to supplant number one or slide underneath and "clip coupons". One barrier is the Adobe technology and interface. That is substantial. But perhaps more intimidating is the users inertia. If a competitor was very close to Adobe, and similar price would you jump today. How about a year ago.
Somebody at the top has to see the danger to their franchise and patch. What if... for say $100 +/- a year you get access to the latest and greatest CS and old and moldy. Would you jump because Corel charging 80 a year for something "as good as",
Yes, there are considerations. I'm not checking out of Photoshop. I have far too much invested in books and the learning curve. The Adobe monopoly has all but eliminated instructional materials for the competition due to sheer volume of sales, or the lack thereof. Curvemeister is a prime example of a great add-on that does not work with Gimp or PSP or other editors because there is insufficient volume to labor over the code (although Gimp, being open source, would be a lot easier).
What concerns me is that, being a monopoly within the professional ranks, Adobe can make mistakes without much fear of damage. Their stock prices have fallen over 10% with the announcement of subscription-based products, but I suspect they are expecting that to be temporary, and once the reality sets in with customers, they expect to rule with it. I found it interesting to see the spin and arrogance demonstrated by the CEO during the on-line MAX sessions which turned out to be nothing but a sales pitch for the wonders of the cloud and mobile synchronization rather than announcements of new and greater product features.
There is virtually nothing in CC that would tempt me to buy an upgrade if I could. Giving Adobe life-long access to my bank account to keep CC alive and prevent termination is completely out of the question. That is the reason I'm at the end of the Adobe Photoshop cycle if and when CS6 ceases to be a working editor that meets my needs.
Yes, Adobe made a big mistake. They know it now, but like so many with huge egos, they will not likely admit that, nor will they make any immediate concessions to that error, which would be an admission of failure. The backlash has been tremendous. Photographer forums such as dpreview, Fredmiranda and others have few if any photographers defending subscription-based software. Academic institutions are facing cost increases at a time when budget cuts are imminent for arts courses and many will not be able to sell the need for subscription-based software to their administrations. Many plug-in developers have stopped development waiting to see how the market reacts and whether or not the customer base will follow each other over the cliff like lemmings, or turn away and find other paths. If Adobe changes the core code in such a way that CC add-ons are not backwards compatible with CS6, I think the end is in sight for many of them.
So for me, CS6 is the latest, greatest and best Photoshop, but it is the last Adobe purchase for me unless they come up with a Photographer package that allows upgrade purchase without subscription. It is a benchmark version that is well worth buying as long as you realize that it's a dead end unless you are willing to pay and pay and pay every month forever for the privilege of having access to CC and its infinitesimal improvements. There would have to be some incredible new features, not just a few plug-in tweaks, for me to even consider a subscription, and I don't see anything close to that. If plug-in developers, like Mike, continue to improve their products and those products continue to work within CS6, I'll grab those eagerly. But forget the subscription. Ask Microsoft how they're doing with Office 365.
What concerns me is that, being a monopoly within the professional ranks, Adobe can make mistakes without much fear of damage. Their stock prices have fallen over 10% with the announcement of subscription-based products, but I suspect they are expecting that to be temporary, and once the reality sets in with customers, they expect to rule with it. I found it interesting to see the spin and arrogance demonstrated by the CEO during the on-line MAX sessions which turned out to be nothing but a sales pitch for the wonders of the cloud and mobile synchronization rather than announcements of new and greater product features.
There is virtually nothing in CC that would tempt me to buy an upgrade if I could. Giving Adobe life-long access to my bank account to keep CC alive and prevent termination is completely out of the question. That is the reason I'm at the end of the Adobe Photoshop cycle if and when CS6 ceases to be a working editor that meets my needs.
Yes, Adobe made a big mistake. They know it now, but like so many with huge egos, they will not likely admit that, nor will they make any immediate concessions to that error, which would be an admission of failure. The backlash has been tremendous. Photographer forums such as dpreview, Fredmiranda and others have few if any photographers defending subscription-based software. Academic institutions are facing cost increases at a time when budget cuts are imminent for arts courses and many will not be able to sell the need for subscription-based software to their administrations. Many plug-in developers have stopped development waiting to see how the market reacts and whether or not the customer base will follow each other over the cliff like lemmings, or turn away and find other paths. If Adobe changes the core code in such a way that CC add-ons are not backwards compatible with CS6, I think the end is in sight for many of them.
So for me, CS6 is the latest, greatest and best Photoshop, but it is the last Adobe purchase for me unless they come up with a Photographer package that allows upgrade purchase without subscription. It is a benchmark version that is well worth buying as long as you realize that it's a dead end unless you are willing to pay and pay and pay every month forever for the privilege of having access to CC and its infinitesimal improvements. There would have to be some incredible new features, not just a few plug-in tweaks, for me to even consider a subscription, and I don't see anything close to that. If plug-in developers, like Mike, continue to improve their products and those products continue to work within CS6, I'll grab those eagerly. But forget the subscription. Ask Microsoft how they're doing with Office 365.
I'm glad to hear that, Greg. I know Mike has some concerns about the mass defection from the Adobe subscription scheme, mainly among photographers. And photographers are the prime customer base for Curvemeister, not so much the high end professional digital imaging and video operations. A stand-alone Curvemeister would be able to supplement some of the other pixel editor platforms without having to be integrated - or at least could be seen as plug-ins by open source editors like Gimp. I hope he can pull that off.
I haven't done as much editing in recent months, but I do use CM on virtually every image as part of my normal routine which consists of a RAW capture, loading into ACR for some "surface" adjustments, then into CS6 and CM as my curves enhancements and perhaps some pixel editing to remove phone wires, signs, etc. or to repair old photos (a passion of mine). I did purchase Modern Photoshop Color Workflow and will invest time with that book and the videos, but of course that is "locked" to CS6 and as far as I know doesn't include CM although Dan did mention CM in has last version of Professional Photoshop, so he is a fan, which is a huge endorsement.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of Adobe customers are Photoshop-only users (or perhaps Lightroom as well) - people who do not use or need the other platforms like InDesign, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, AfterEffects, PremierPro, Muse, etc. If that user base is large enough, it may push them to reconsider subscription-only. On the other hand, if Adobe sees their cash cow as the big shop professional market, it may well be a done deal regardless of the percentage of lower profit photographers there are out here. Photographers, in general, are not deep pocket buyers and many skip versions until they no longer have the option to upgrade. And I'm thinking that many new customers entering the field will shy away from subscription-based software, being content with Elements or Lightroom or Picasa or Gimp. One can only wonder how long it will take for Adobe to put Elements on subscription, a product that used to be given away with the purchase of a new scanner or printer. At any rate, I hope Mike is able to broaden CM support to competing products.
I haven't done as much editing in recent months, but I do use CM on virtually every image as part of my normal routine which consists of a RAW capture, loading into ACR for some "surface" adjustments, then into CS6 and CM as my curves enhancements and perhaps some pixel editing to remove phone wires, signs, etc. or to repair old photos (a passion of mine). I did purchase Modern Photoshop Color Workflow and will invest time with that book and the videos, but of course that is "locked" to CS6 and as far as I know doesn't include CM although Dan did mention CM in has last version of Professional Photoshop, so he is a fan, which is a huge endorsement.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of Adobe customers are Photoshop-only users (or perhaps Lightroom as well) - people who do not use or need the other platforms like InDesign, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, AfterEffects, PremierPro, Muse, etc. If that user base is large enough, it may push them to reconsider subscription-only. On the other hand, if Adobe sees their cash cow as the big shop professional market, it may well be a done deal regardless of the percentage of lower profit photographers there are out here. Photographers, in general, are not deep pocket buyers and many skip versions until they no longer have the option to upgrade. And I'm thinking that many new customers entering the field will shy away from subscription-based software, being content with Elements or Lightroom or Picasa or Gimp. One can only wonder how long it will take for Adobe to put Elements on subscription, a product that used to be given away with the purchase of a new scanner or printer. At any rate, I hope Mike is able to broaden CM support to competing products.
The issues are many and the desire high to get out there beyond Windows and PS.
We are uncertain right now as to the final form; but it is moving forward and we certainly want to increase our user numbers. We have been looking at GIMP and we are also exploring some others as well but the main thrust is to be platform and Photoshop independent. No easy task I assure you..
Greg
We are uncertain right now as to the final form; but it is moving forward and we certainly want to increase our user numbers. We have been looking at GIMP and we are also exploring some others as well but the main thrust is to be platform and Photoshop independent. No easy task I assure you..
Greg
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sjordan93436
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:23 am
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imported_ganna
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:41 am
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