Horrifying: http://www.good.is/post/light-skinned-black-women-receive-shorter-prison-sentences-than-dark-women/
Lee.
Light-Skinned Black Women Receive Shorter Prison Sentences Than Dark Women
Everyone....
I'm not quite sure if we should let this discussion continue.
CM forum has always been a place where color has always been correct.
Tone has been adjusted and judgement is reserved for images.
I'll allow this for now but if it gets too far afield I'll shut it down,
Let us all hope and pray or wish for a world where this topic no longer matters.
Greg
I'm not quite sure if we should let this discussion continue.
CM forum has always been a place where color has always been correct.
Tone has been adjusted and judgement is reserved for images.
I'll allow this for now but if it gets too far afield I'll shut it down,
Let us all hope and pray or wish for a world where this topic no longer matters.
Greg
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sjordan93436
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leeharper_admin
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Greg,
Please feel free to remove this post/thread if you feel that would be best. Perhaps by initially posting a link to an article that appears at first to be only tangentially linked to color correction, this thread seems off-topic for the forum; allow me to explain why I think that it is something that we need to consider...
The ethics of digital manipulation have been discussed at length in the field of beauty retouching; plenty of evidence points to the negative effect that retouched images have on self-esteem - particularly the self-esteem of young girls (who do not always realize that the shot they are looking at has been manipulated); there are links between retouched fashion imagery and anorexia for example. In the UK there has been discussion about including some kind of logo next to retouched images to make explicitly clear that the image does not conform to reality (although there is still no agreement as to the form that this scheme should take).
It is clear that in the case of beauty retouching, self-esteem is effected (negatively) without most viewers being aware that their perceptions of 'beauty' are being manipulated. The article that I linked to indicated to me that color correction can be similarly ethically troubling.
I have felt in the past that color correction lay outside of the realm of beauty retouching ethics - but I have come to realize that it doesn't; we therefore need to be aware of the potential damage that certain color correction decisions may have on society. The images that we tend to discuss on this forum don't usually feature people, so - other than an occasional mention of where the hue clock should point for skin tones - this issue doesn't really come up.
Because skin tones don't often come up in discussion on this forum, discussion tends to focus on whether colors are 'correct' (in terms of hue - e.g., skies shouldn't be green), or 'appealing' (e.g., saturated colors tend to be more appealing than pastel colors). It is easy to subconsciously surmise based upon this focus that these are the only factors (in terms of color) that we need to concern ourselves with; what strikes me about the article I linked to, is that we have been ignoring color semiotics (i.e., the cultural meaning that certain colors impart).
In a positive sense, color semiotics are heavily used by colorists (people color correcting films/tv shows) as an aid to storytelling (there are perhaps things that we can apply to our corrections of still images from this field). However - particularly in the case of skin tones - color semiotics can have a negative impact upon people.
Certainly it's an uncomfortable question to ask - and perhaps it's too uncomfortable a discussion to have on a public forum such as this - so if you feel it is better to close this thread down, that's fine - but whether or not we feel we can openly discuss the semiotic meaning of skin tone corrections, we cannot pretend that this isn't an issue. Skin tone corrections obviously have - at least a subconscious - effect upon viewers, and that effect can often be negative; therefore, these correction decisions that we have to make are ethical decisions, so we need to know where we stand on them.
As with the ethics of beauty retouching, our opinions regarding the ethics of color semiology (as seen through the lens of color correction) are likely to vary. However, in deciding where we each stand on this issue, we need to be cognizant of the impact that our corrections have on viewers of our images.
A documentary about these issues is forthcoming. A trailer for the film is available on YouTube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXG38QxXY-s
The trailer makes for extremely uncomfortable viewing, but I think that it is important that we see this, hear the message, and come to informed ethical decisions.
Again, I don't wish to cause anyone any harm through this thread; I merely think that by recognizing these issues - and correcting images accordingly - we can act for the public good (as I said, most people are passive consumers of imagery - and whilst there is increasing public awareness of beauty retouching techniques [the 'Liquify' tool, for example], I think that there is very little public awareness about color correction).
Respectfully - and prayerfully,
Lee.
Please feel free to remove this post/thread if you feel that would be best. Perhaps by initially posting a link to an article that appears at first to be only tangentially linked to color correction, this thread seems off-topic for the forum; allow me to explain why I think that it is something that we need to consider...
The ethics of digital manipulation have been discussed at length in the field of beauty retouching; plenty of evidence points to the negative effect that retouched images have on self-esteem - particularly the self-esteem of young girls (who do not always realize that the shot they are looking at has been manipulated); there are links between retouched fashion imagery and anorexia for example. In the UK there has been discussion about including some kind of logo next to retouched images to make explicitly clear that the image does not conform to reality (although there is still no agreement as to the form that this scheme should take).
It is clear that in the case of beauty retouching, self-esteem is effected (negatively) without most viewers being aware that their perceptions of 'beauty' are being manipulated. The article that I linked to indicated to me that color correction can be similarly ethically troubling.
I have felt in the past that color correction lay outside of the realm of beauty retouching ethics - but I have come to realize that it doesn't; we therefore need to be aware of the potential damage that certain color correction decisions may have on society. The images that we tend to discuss on this forum don't usually feature people, so - other than an occasional mention of where the hue clock should point for skin tones - this issue doesn't really come up.
Because skin tones don't often come up in discussion on this forum, discussion tends to focus on whether colors are 'correct' (in terms of hue - e.g., skies shouldn't be green), or 'appealing' (e.g., saturated colors tend to be more appealing than pastel colors). It is easy to subconsciously surmise based upon this focus that these are the only factors (in terms of color) that we need to concern ourselves with; what strikes me about the article I linked to, is that we have been ignoring color semiotics (i.e., the cultural meaning that certain colors impart).
In a positive sense, color semiotics are heavily used by colorists (people color correcting films/tv shows) as an aid to storytelling (there are perhaps things that we can apply to our corrections of still images from this field). However - particularly in the case of skin tones - color semiotics can have a negative impact upon people.
Certainly it's an uncomfortable question to ask - and perhaps it's too uncomfortable a discussion to have on a public forum such as this - so if you feel it is better to close this thread down, that's fine - but whether or not we feel we can openly discuss the semiotic meaning of skin tone corrections, we cannot pretend that this isn't an issue. Skin tone corrections obviously have - at least a subconscious - effect upon viewers, and that effect can often be negative; therefore, these correction decisions that we have to make are ethical decisions, so we need to know where we stand on them.
As with the ethics of beauty retouching, our opinions regarding the ethics of color semiology (as seen through the lens of color correction) are likely to vary. However, in deciding where we each stand on this issue, we need to be cognizant of the impact that our corrections have on viewers of our images.
A documentary about these issues is forthcoming. A trailer for the film is available on YouTube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXG38QxXY-s
The trailer makes for extremely uncomfortable viewing, but I think that it is important that we see this, hear the message, and come to informed ethical decisions.
Again, I don't wish to cause anyone any harm through this thread; I merely think that by recognizing these issues - and correcting images accordingly - we can act for the public good (as I said, most people are passive consumers of imagery - and whilst there is increasing public awareness of beauty retouching techniques [the 'Liquify' tool, for example], I think that there is very little public awareness about color correction).
Respectfully - and prayerfully,
Lee.
Lee And Everyone....
It is never my intent to turn a blind eye to the issues facing us as image manipulators; we all certainly need to be aware of our decisions. It is however part of my responsibility to make a strong effort to keep the forum clear of postings that inflame.
THIS IS NOT A REBUKE...
Had the explanation preceded the original posting my "caution sign" to the forum would probably not have been needed. As with most information; a context is necessary to help everyone understand the position and relationship to the topic at hand. Being that we cannot see a face or hear a tone of voice; great care has to be taken when we open topics such as this; the risk is great and the potential damage can be permanent.
I share your concerns and we certainly should have a discussion about these issues as they arise.
Steve, It was not my intent to have you remove your posting...I understand how you might feel that is the response I was looking for. If I had an issue with the posting I would have removed it and sent you a note. I hope you do not miss understand the caution as anger or frustration.
With sincere respect to all...
Greg
It is never my intent to turn a blind eye to the issues facing us as image manipulators; we all certainly need to be aware of our decisions. It is however part of my responsibility to make a strong effort to keep the forum clear of postings that inflame.
THIS IS NOT A REBUKE...
Had the explanation preceded the original posting my "caution sign" to the forum would probably not have been needed. As with most information; a context is necessary to help everyone understand the position and relationship to the topic at hand. Being that we cannot see a face or hear a tone of voice; great care has to be taken when we open topics such as this; the risk is great and the potential damage can be permanent.
I share your concerns and we certainly should have a discussion about these issues as they arise.
Steve, It was not my intent to have you remove your posting...I understand how you might feel that is the response I was looking for. If I had an issue with the posting I would have removed it and sent you a note. I hope you do not miss understand the caution as anger or frustration.
With sincere respect to all...
Greg
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leeharper_admin
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Everyone,
I have decided to try to arrange interviews with Maryam Mohammadzadeh (Color Semiotics expert) and Bill Duke (director of the documentary I mentioned); I think that their opinions in this discussion would be helpful.
If any of you have any questions that you would like me to raise with them (presuming that they agree to be interviewed), please let me know...
Thank you,
Lee.
I have decided to try to arrange interviews with Maryam Mohammadzadeh (Color Semiotics expert) and Bill Duke (director of the documentary I mentioned); I think that their opinions in this discussion would be helpful.
If any of you have any questions that you would like me to raise with them (presuming that they agree to be interviewed), please let me know...
Thank you,
Lee.
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sjordan93436
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- Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:23 am
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Lee,
If you get an interview...
Please ask how other cultures handle the issue. The western world has been indoctrinated with a set of beliefs that in my experience do not play out the same when you are talking about this issue in an eastern culture. For instance..I did a portrait of a Tibetan woman. I thought I nailed the skin tone...She told me it was "too red. That in her country the more yellow the skin the higher the social status..and could I please make her look more yellow toned"... I did as she asked even though it made her look sallow in my eyes...She was pleased and told me that I had to be careful with "Eastern Peoples...because they are very sensitive to the hue and tone of the skin..."
I took her to heart...but I would like to know if that is her opinion or a real cultural issue.
Greg
If you get an interview...
Please ask how other cultures handle the issue. The western world has been indoctrinated with a set of beliefs that in my experience do not play out the same when you are talking about this issue in an eastern culture. For instance..I did a portrait of a Tibetan woman. I thought I nailed the skin tone...She told me it was "too red. That in her country the more yellow the skin the higher the social status..and could I please make her look more yellow toned"... I did as she asked even though it made her look sallow in my eyes...She was pleased and told me that I had to be careful with "Eastern Peoples...because they are very sensitive to the hue and tone of the skin..."
I took her to heart...but I would like to know if that is her opinion or a real cultural issue.
Greg
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