Monitor Calibration

[mikemeister_admin]

It can look good on screen all day long but what do the prints look like?
Greg

For this reason, I have bought me now Prinfixpro.
But also, I bring my photo's never to a pro processor.
I fill my ink-tanks myself.
So, I make now a printerprofile for let us say 1000 pieces of or dinairy photopaper of 200 grs/m2.
when I must fill again my tanks , I make a new profile, with 255 measurements.
The best photo's,(these days from my family), are sealed with special photosealer and it is put on the wall in my Hobby-chamber or give it away.
Greg
 

...the darn camera can see a wider range of exposure than film...go figure...
Greg

So far I know has film a much wider exposure range then a digital foto-censor.

so for me...so far...I use a good greyscale for gamma adjustment, I check the whites against a piece of white photo paper and I watch my exposure...
Greg

Yes, you could do that on this way, but I have never the time for that. Special not on a vacation or something.
For special photographing I have had never the time.

Frits

[ggroess]

Fritz,

When I talk about "seeing" exposure..Film can see an effective 10 stops.  Hence the zone system.  Photopaper on the other hand can only "see" about 5 to 6 stops.  So no matter what you do with Film you can only get about 5 stops of exposure.  When you burn and dodge you in effect bring parts of the film outside the range back into the papers range of exposure. Same thing with the Curves tool, It brings the image data back into a range that can be output to paper or video/LCD.

Digital in my experience can see about 12 stops.  You might not want to print them all but they are in there...Your Printer nor any Professional Printer service can squeeze all the data into a print. 

I have many of my prints done by a professional photo house so that the image is a photo print and not an inkjet.  I choose this for surface texture, weight, and image stability.  I use my printer at home for "quick and dirty prints"

It's really a matter of preference, not a slight or slam on your way of doing things.
Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

Fritz,

When I talk about "seeing" exposure..Film can see an effective 10 stops. 

This is the reason why I made dia-positives in the early days.
On this moment I am busy a couple of days to scan all important diapositives ( most persons) in my computer
with a cheap scanner the Primefilm 1800U witch is to compare ( a bit) with a 4 MB camera. (?)

I use my printer at home for "quick and dirty prints"

For me  it is a question of money (, what I not have).
I spend more then 500 euro on printfixpro, but I can do now what like, with ink and paper.
My family  is quickly satisfied about the quality of pictures I make.
I am not. I tryiing to better that.
I know when an picture is good and nice, but my family not.
My experience is that most people are quickly satisfied, about the bad pictures a processor delivers.

I like to see my prints in A4 format.
Frits
Greg, my English is sometimes strange. I am Dutch you now, and I am consult often a dictionairy to write the right words. Reading is not a problem for me

[-default]

[From Frits re monitor calibration]
that's to easy said. Only a neutral gray ramp. ? what about gamma and brightness of the screen.?

These are certainly important too.  Screen brightness is generally directly adjustable, and the native gamma of the monitor is, generally speaking, very close to the nominal value of 2.2, so I don't think it's that important to adjust it for normal use.

When matching multiple monitors to one another, or in a work environment where several systems need to match one another, it's a different situation, and I would recommend a monitor profiling device in that situation.

So, I thought it also in the early days, I can try the suggestions which to find on www.
But, I never get the two screens equal.
So, my reference is now Spyder2Pro. 

The Spyder is an excellent instrument.  I wound up with the Eye One 2, and so far I am happy with its results.  One reason I bought this instrument was to see how different, really, the results were from manual calibration.  I'll be discussing this in a few weeks, after I've calibrated a number of displays.

In my opinion it measures no color at all, but  light densities.
It is in essence a electronic device/chip what measures the light through a opal glass.
This is translated in densities or candelas.
The program generates indeed different colors and grays, but it all is measured an translated.
So also the gamma is generated.
The en-result is a profile specific for that videochart and screen.
After calibration you must not change anything on the videochart or screen.

The Spyder is a colorimeter, and as such it measures at least three different colors.  With the Eye One Display, I can see colored filters within the instrument, and I imagine if you used a light source and magnifier you could see the same with the Spyder.  There is another instrument, called a spectrophotometer, that measures light across many frequencies, and provides more color information than the Spyder or Eye One Display.

A grey ramp is to easy, in my opinion.
So, it would be nice if anyone of this group has a special reference-chart, with which he can compare and measure this in  photoshop or PSE and together with curvemeister which gives exact ciphers.
So, a reference-chart you specify or what you can find on www what you declare as basic.
Then you measures each quadrant with curvemeister  and give us the measurements.
So, everyone without a spyder2pro or other calibration-device reaches about the same results with curvemeister,
when he does the same.
Is that a good idea?

I think it's an excellent idea.  There are a number of charts available that do this.  At some point I'd like to see what can be done with these charts and how well it compares with using an instrument to calibrate the display.

You are quite correct, as well, when you say that adjusting the display is only half the problem.  Getting accurate printer performance is also necessary for a complete workflow.  Does this require an instrument, or can it be done by printing test charts, or some other way?  I think this is an interesting question as well that I hope will be discussed more here.  I am in the midst of using a dtp22 to generate profiles for my two Epson printers, and using ColorShop to evaluate the resulting profiles.  Quite interesting, and a whole new world of gadgetry and software.  There are also services that will create a profile for you for only 25 dollars.  I'm interested in your results with your new PrintFix system.

Mike

[mikemeister_admin]

quote from mike
These are certainly important too.  Screen brightness is generally directly adjustable, and the native gamma of the monitor is, generally speaking, very close to the nominal value of 2.2, so I don't think it's that important to adjust it for normal use.

When matching multiple monitors to one another, or in a work environment where several systems need to match one another, it's a different situation, and I would recommend a monitor profiling device in that situation.

quote

Yeh... you know, that before I started computering in beginning 1979 , I have as hobby electronic.
I build some devices and had several measuring equipments. The most I have still yet.
So, these days I  had much books about electronics. So I am reading also about Gamma.
Simple said: "the vacuum tube of a TV receiver or scoop does not respond equally on giving more voltage''
No linearity!
So you must give 2,2  times more on volts to get a linear ramp result. A straight line , so to speak.
So, that's known to me .
But, after computering several years, and digital photography came in sight, I started with it.
So, also came colormastering in sight, and I would like to now more about that.
So, these days I had a CRT monitor and there the Gamma is about 2,2.
But , After years I bought me another computer aside the other with a LCD screen.
Then,  I get wrong thoughts about gamma and made a mistake.
I thought Gamma 2,2  ( for macintosh/Apple tubes 1,8) is for CRT monitors. Tubes.
I did not know that microsoft windows has in calculated in his basic-program the 2,2  Gamma.
So, I thought , a LCD screen is not a Tube and responds linear to his input.
I have not to compensate the Gamma for a LC Dscreen, was I thinking.
But it seems that I must compensate for the Gamma 2,2 with a LCD screen.
Till know the phenomena is not 100 % clear to me.
But the Spyder2PRO  has a mode for CRT and LCD screens, and indeed does Gamma -compensation for it.
Again, it is not 100% clear to me the whole phenomena about Gamma and the 2,2 value with LCD's.
Can you see my problem and give a short clearing on my wrong thinking about that problem ?

---

On the other hand, when you have calibrated your monitor , you must not change the brightness.
So , you must see a couple of pictures before, and find your overall brightness good, then the calibrator gives the output in candella /m2.
I read that is about normal to have your brightness around 113 candella/m2 for a CRT tube.
So my two LCD screens have now  indeed both 113 candella's. It is not dark and not to bright.

Frits

[mikemeister_admin]

Quote
The Spyder is a colorimeter, and as such it measures at least three different colors.  With the Eye One Display, I can see colored filters within the instrument, and I imagine if you used a light source and magnifier you could see the same with the Spyder.  There is another instrument, called a spectrophotometer, that measures light across many frequencies, and provides more color information than the Spyder or Eye One Display.
quote-end

Mike, i don't believe that. I have dissembled the Spyder2Pro so far as possible to do no damage and I thought also seen it on www a sort of exploded view.  I see a sort of opal glass covering a chip-house.
In these days when I made much dia-positives I had a hand-colorimeter to measure sunlight, in kelvin.
So it was also a big opal-glass.
Simple said the light from sun or LCD or CRT tube falls on the opal-Glass and gives a certain impression on a light-cell(s) or something.
So, colors give  a certain clarity or density. I think  use the wrong terminologies.
You see it when you vanish the colors from  picture.  Each color gives a special clarity.
there are programs on the marked with it you can fill in black and white pictures.
I think, but I am not sure it is based on that principle.  So, they can color in also films.
So, Spyder2pro generates indeed several colors and grays and measures that.
But he sees not really colors, but light-impressions.
It could be that your Calibrator is better, then is based on color-filers.
Perhaps there are comparable tests.
But there are photospectrometric devices witch are of course better , But more expensive.
All those cheaper devices are for the ordinary consummate and semi-professionals.
When I am wrong you tell me.

Frits

[ggroess]

Hey Fritz,

Where in Holland??  When I was younger My family hosted a Dutch student for a year.  She was from a small city between Delft and Amsterdam.
My complements on your english..you are doing fine...

Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

Hey Fritz,

Where in Holland??  When I was younger My family hosted a Dutch student for a year.  She was from a small city between Delft and Amsterdam.
My complements on your english..you are doing fine...

Greg

Greg,
I live in Vlaardingen, that is in the direct neighbourhood of Delft.
Yeh. my English. I am now nearly 65 and learned English on the school about 50 years ago.
But you know, there is a spellchecker in this program , so I use that frequently.

Frits

[mikemeister_admin]

quote
I think it's an excellent idea.  There are a number of charts available that do this.  At some point I'd like to see what can be done with these charts and how well it compares with using an instrument to calibrate the display.

You are quite correct, as well, when you say that adjusting the display is only half the problem.  Getting accurate printer performance is also necessary for a complete workflow.  Does this require an instrument, or can it be done by printing test charts, or some other way?  I think this is an interesting question as well that I hope will be discussed more here.  I am in the midst of using a dtp22 to generate profiles for my two Epson printers, and using ColorShop to evaluate the resulting profiles.  Quite interesting, and a whole new world of gadgetry and software.  There are also services that will create a profile for you for only 25 dollars.  I'm interested in your results with your new PrintFix system.

Mike
Quote-end.
Mike,  in the past when I did curvemeister and have seen the results from others they where different.
I mean not the colorcorrection, but the overall looking. the Gamma !
So, when we take a certain standard chart from the internet, you can measure with Curvemeister the colors.
I did it before, you know it.
So, when , you as master in curvemeister and with now your calibrated equipment can measure these values and  make this as a basis for the lesson.  So then there must be a way to calibrate for gamma and  brightness.
There could be a way for a minimum standardisation  in the output.

---

You can't guess how many hours, weeks, months I have spend on calibration.
Not every minute but, I am a person , when I met a problem, I go for it , all takes it years, so to speaking.
This is a resultante from the electronica-period, or it is my person.
I like investigation when I have the time for it
But, it was never with satisfaction results.
Now, that I have 2 equipments to calibrate the whole thing, I can concentrate me on other things.
For instance handling curvemeister better.
It is a time ago , that I used curvemeister intensively.
But, I have seen, that forgotten some things and must do some details again on curvemeister.
That is also for other plugins.
So, I am busy to scan in many dia-positives.  The colors are horrible.
So curvemeister comes in.
But when the dia's are in the computer  I going learn again Curvemeister.

---

Printing is now no problem.  When I fill my printerhead from the HP Deskyet 970CXI with fresh ink, i must make a new profile.
I do that on a 255 field  bases. That takes about 20 minutes.
The principle is that the program generates a color-chart (s). (you can have more then 700 fields).
I suppose that it is a standard-chart based on the industry-standardisation.
So that chart, you print it, on you special photopaper.
(Before that all , you must be sure that printing works good with good inkflow and no stripes.)
Then the measure-equipment comes in place.
You can calibrate it, on a special plate.
Then , you messure each color field, and you jumps to the next field.
That takes about 20 minutes.
Then the program generates a profile for that paper and ink.
Inside there are several leds witch functioning as lamps.  
the reflection is measured.

---

mike, what do you specific like to know about my printing results or Printfixpro ?

frits
P.S. in the past I had also epson printers. They are the best. But I have damaged the printers.

[mikemeister_admin]

Mike,
here is the adress with a test about the Spyder2Pro.
you can see the opal glass.

ColorVision Spyder2 Plus Testrapport
http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/review/colorvison/spyder2/colorvision_spyder2_nl.html

Frits